-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA1 [29 Apr 20:00] + [29 Apr 20:00] --- Sparks (n=sparks@fedora/Sparks) changed topic: Welcome to the Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Agenda_for_Next_Meeting [29 Apr 20:00] +Roll Call! [29 Apr 20:00] + [29 Apr 20:00] * Sparks is here [29 Apr 20:00] + [29 Apr 20:00] * jjmcd est ici [29 Apr 20:00] - [29 Apr 20:00] * rudi is here [29 Apr 20:01] + [29 Apr 20:01] * Sparks waits a few more minutes before getting everything kicked off [29 Apr 20:02] + [29 Apr 20:02] * jjmcd sees ke4qqq, quaid, radsy but they must be sleeping [29 Apr 20:02] + [29 Apr 20:02] * radsy is here [29 Apr 20:04] +Isn't ke4qqq first up? [29 Apr 20:04] +jjmcd: Yes [29 Apr 20:04] +fwiw i'm mostly in lurk mode, in the middle of a few things [29 Apr 20:05] +Well, while we wait... [29 Apr 20:06] +I sent out a couple of messages earlier today. I'm trying to organize the guides and such so if you are the lead of a guide please take a look at those messages and help me out, please. [29 Apr 20:07] --- Sparks (n=sparks@fedora/Sparks) changed topic: Docs Project - Go over task table [29 Apr 20:08] +The task table is located under the meeting agenda. [29 Apr 20:08] +It needs to be updated. [29 Apr 20:08] + [29 Apr 20:08] * ke4qqq is late sorry [29 Apr 20:09] +So please take a peek at it and see if you can either 1) update it or 2) join up to help it along. [29 Apr 20:09] +Sparks, since my F12 questions overlap the Publican topic, I will make a page outlining the steps and decisions we need to make (after pot is out of course) [29 Apr 20:09] +jjmcd: Cool [29 Apr 20:09] +And that's all I have to say about the task table this week. [29 Apr 20:10] --- Sparks (n=sparks@fedora/Sparks) changed topic: Docs Project - Shameless plug for SouthEast LinuxFest +ke4qqq: Take it away. [29 Apr 20:10] +so firest the southeast linuxfest is June 13 [29 Apr 20:10] +s/firest/first/ [29 Apr 20:10] +second - is there any interest in having a Docs FAD on the 12th or 14th? [29 Apr 20:11] +I wouldn't mind that [29 Apr 20:11] +I know a lot of the docs contributors are in the southeast [29 Apr 20:11] +stickster is already confirmed to be there. [29 Apr 20:11] + [29 Apr 20:11] * jjmcd has to be here on the 13th [29 Apr 20:11] +So I'd like to propose that we spend some time hacking on our infrastructure - perhaps getting some packagers minted as well. [29 Apr 20:12] +ke4qqq: I'm PLANNING on being there... [29 Apr 20:12] +That would be a good move. we need packagers [29 Apr 20:12] +and I'd like a yes/no on the entire thing maybe within a week or so. [29 Apr 20:12] +jjmcd: you could participate remotely [29 Apr 20:12] +ohhh yeah sparks is going to be there [29 Apr 20:12] +Prolly Friday. [29 Apr 20:12] +ke4qqq: Well... I stress the planning part... [29 Apr 20:12] + [29 Apr 20:12] * ke4qqq concludes his shameless plug - I'll send an email to the list. [29 Apr 20:12] ++1 [29 Apr 20:12] +Boston remote didn't work so hot [29 Apr 20:13] +jjmcd: Yeah, but that was yankee land... we're down south. [29 Apr 20:13] +Coulda done better on cw [29 Apr 20:13] +Boston is a lot busier too [29 Apr 20:13] +as well as the phones worked [29 Apr 20:13] +yeah, the confusion was a lot of it [29 Apr 20:15] +yep [29 Apr 20:15] +ke4qqq: Anything else? [29 Apr 20:15] +nothing on this subject [29 Apr 20:15] +Okay... [29 Apr 20:16] --- Sparks (n=sparks@fedora/Sparks) changed topic: Docs Project - Review [http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-11/f-11-docs-tasks.html schedule] [29 Apr 20:16] +I am here sorry for being late [29 Apr 20:16] +Looks like a few things happened here recently. [29 Apr 20:17] +Well, 34 in progress, 36 is Friday's task [29 Apr 20:17] +jjmcd: You going to be able to build the RN RPM by Friday week? [29 Apr 20:18] +I see no reason why not [29 Apr 20:18] +We have work today and tomorrow [29 Apr 20:18] +then we wait a while for the translators [29 Apr 20:18] +Cool. I see that the translations are going well. [29 Apr 20:18] +then we repeat last weeks steps [29 Apr 20:18] +Would be good tho if I had a shadow [29 Apr 20:19] +Right now I think I'm the only one who knows what is actually going on there [29 Apr 20:19] +jjmcd: Pick your victim [29 Apr 20:20] +Dunno, Zach, how busy are you next week aroung task 37 time [29 Apr 20:20] +ohhh bad, gotta be friday [29 Apr 20:20] +I'm in Lansing Saturday, Alma Sunday [29 Apr 20:21] +zoglesby, are you busy Friday? [29 Apr 20:21] +no [29 Apr 20:21] +would you like to learn how f-r-n.rpm goes together? [29 Apr 20:21] +sure [29 Apr 20:21] +good deal, lets do that then [29 Apr 20:22] +that's Friday the 8th [29 Apr 20:22] +ok, let me know what time is good for you [29 Apr 20:22] +K, I'm an early riser so prolly noon-ish your time, maybe a little earlier [29 Apr 20:23] +thats great about when I get up [29 Apr 20:23] +;-)) [29 Apr 20:23] +(I am on nights now) [29 Apr 20:25] + [29 Apr 20:25] * quaid arrives tardy [29 Apr 20:25] +So are all the guide pots done? [29 Apr 20:26] +? [29 Apr 20:26] +task 32 [29 Apr 20:26] +IG pot is done [29 Apr 20:26] +SG pot is done [29 Apr 20:27] +believe UG pot is done [29 Apr 20:27] +cool [29 Apr 20:27] +obviously the RN pot is done [29 Apr 20:27] +what others are out there? [29 Apr 20:27] -UG pot is done [29 Apr 20:27] +SELinux [29 Apr 20:27] +I gather that "0 day" means final RN tweaks en-US only until docs.fp.org updated in June? [29 Apr 20:28] +I guess [29 Apr 20:28] -IG pot still reflects a draft version (Task 24), with a couple of small changes still to go for PR (will be done in the next couple of hours...) [29 Apr 20:29] +rudi: I have a conflict on the guide table for the UG... https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_meetings#Guides [29 Apr 20:29] +Is the UG completely in XML now? [29 Apr 20:29] +the selinux confined services guide won't be ready for a while still, and it looks like it's about to have another section added, so... [29 Apr 20:30] -Sparks: UG completely in XML and building fine [29 Apr 20:30] +rudi: Okay. [29 Apr 20:30] +radsy: Understood. Anything I can help with? [29 Apr 20:31] +should be fine, Sparks - it's taking shape, just doubtful for f11 [29 Apr 20:31] +Sparks: rudi is a machine and moved UG to XML in what seemed like a week. [29 Apr 20:31] +radsy: Okay. Is it going to be release specific or more like the SG? [29 Apr 20:31] +radsy: chance it could branch off minus the confined services content and be something available?? [29 Apr 20:31] +good but not yet perfect? [29 Apr 20:32] *** You connected [29 Apr 20:32] +not release specific [29 Apr 20:32] +radsy: Okay. Whenever it's done let's get it up on docs.fp.o. [29 Apr 20:32] +ke4qqq, the selinux user guide already exists, this is more aimed at a smaller audience [29 Apr 20:33] +radsy: Hmmm.... So there are two "SELinux" guides? [29 Apr 20:33] +radsy: the last selinux UG I saw was for around fc5 - have I missed an intervening one? [29 Apr 20:34] +http://docs.fedoraproject.org/selinux-user-guide/ for f10, mdious wrote it [29 Apr 20:34] +wow - how did I miss that. [29 Apr 20:34] +yep Sparks, http://sradvan.fedorapeople.org/SELinux_Managing_Confined_Services/en-US/ is what I'm working on [29 Apr 20:34] * stickster here late too as promised [29 Apr 20:34] +radsy: Okay, the one mdious was working on is the one I knew about. [29 Apr 20:35] +radsy: is that one translated and ready to go or??? [29 Apr 20:35] +not sure what the story is with the user-guide, i haven't touched it since mdious left [29 Apr 20:36] +radsy: is it in fedorahosted? [29 Apr 20:36] +still working on the confined-services guide [29 Apr 20:36] +https://fedorahosted.org/managing-confined-services/ [29 Apr 20:36] +Okay. [29 Apr 20:37] +Anything else for the schedule? [29 Apr 20:37] +? [29 Apr 20:37] +well i've dragged this off-topic [29 Apr 20:37] +radsy: Not really. [29 Apr 20:37] +Any other questions about the release schedule? [29 Apr 20:37] +have we unknowingly dropped the SELinux guide? [29 Apr 20:38] +and if we have, what are we doing now? does ECS have an internal owner for the document or do we need to assume that ownership or?? [29 Apr 20:38] +ke4qqq: Well... mdious didn't give me much view of the project [29 Apr 20:38] +ke4qqq: We need to figure out where the source is and see where the document is. [29 Apr 20:39] +it's on fedorahosted [29 Apr 20:39] +https://fedorahosted.org/selinuxguide [29 Apr 20:39] +okay [29 Apr 20:39] +and shows commits as recently as feb [29 Apr 20:40] +Let's look at that after the meeting and see what we can do. [29 Apr 20:40] +k [29 Apr 20:40] +Anything else? [29 Apr 20:40] --- Sparks (n=sparks@fedora/Sparks) changed topic: Docs Project - Status on Release Notes +jjmcd: Where are you? [29 Apr 20:41] +Obviously, RN's went into 11Pr. [29 Apr 20:41] +Went through mails, about to add those to wiki, then scrape wiki for xml changes [29 Apr 20:41] +then build the pot for Fri [29 Apr 20:41] +Not a lot of changes so I don't anticipate much prob [29 Apr 20:42] +Trying to get philip_ equipped to help as a way to break into the process [29 Apr 20:42] +Cool [29 Apr 20:42] +laubersm also indicated she might help some but I don't think we have that much to do [29 Apr 20:43] +Okay... anything else? [29 Apr 20:43] +i don't understand RN or 11Pr or why 'scrape wiki' [29 Apr 20:43] +RN = release notes, 11Pr -= Fedora 11 release notes [29 Apr 20:43] +aaaah [29 Apr 20:43] +11pr = fedora 11 preview [29 Apr 20:43] +philip_: you will get the hang of it after a while [29 Apr 20:44] +just went out this week with 99% of release notes there [29 Apr 20:44] Did announcements go out to developers and greater community to tell them about wiki freezing? [29 Apr 20:44] +Does anyone know why yelp seems so much faster on F11 [29 Apr 20:44] It's just mo' betta [29 Apr 20:44] +stickster: I don't know [29 Apr 20:44] +jjmcd: because it goes up to 11 [29 Apr 20:45] +which is one more than 10 [29 Apr 20:45] +:) [29 Apr 20:45] +It's faster on a VM on 11 than native on 10 [29 Apr 20:45] Sparks: It would be a good idea to make a note that someone needs to be responsible for those reminders. [29 Apr 20:45] +stickster: yes [29 Apr 20:45] +we seem to be really lacking the reminder department overall [29 Apr 20:45] +very little wiki activity lately to freeze [29 Apr 20:46] +more concerned about L10n [29 Apr 20:46] jjmcd: That could be due to the lack of reminders... [29 Apr 20:46] +good point [29 Apr 20:46] +zoglesby: Yes... I take responsibility for that as I've been lacking here lately. [29 Apr 20:46] How much time is left before freezing the wiki and port to XML? [29 Apr 20:46] +XML port has to happen tomorrow [29 Apr 20:47] Sparks: OK, let's stand back for a second. [29 Apr 20:47] Oops, not just Sparks, sorry [29 Apr 20:47] We know that's not enough time to give people a heads-up about freezes. [29 Apr 20:47] Yet it's about what we did before the freeze for Preview, right? [29 Apr 20:47] So let's figure out what would help us *not* do that in the future. [29 Apr 20:48] +a calendar [29 Apr 20:48] +with email reminders [29 Apr 20:48] Is someone reading the release schedule tasks? [29 Apr 20:48] +Well, more than that [29 Apr 20:48] the ones that Poelstra creates, I mean [29 Apr 20:48] +yes - they are our calendar effectively [29 Apr 20:48] +One of us needs reminders on our calendar to post warning about events on poelstra's calendar [29 Apr 20:49] jjmcd: You're about 80% of the way there [29 Apr 20:49] + and we really need to prolly add freeze notifications to poelstras schedule [29 Apr 20:49] What we really need is to have this *task* captured in that schedule [29 Apr 20:49] ke4qqq: DISCO! [29 Apr 20:49] +good point [29 Apr 20:49] +jjmcd: Google calendar? [29 Apr 20:49] +Sparks: we can't use Google Calendar [29 Apr 20:49] +I have a NASA calendar marked up on my wall [29 Apr 20:49] +ke4qqq: no? [29 Apr 20:50] So, I would humbly submit to you that the docs lead should get with poelcat and figure out how to add these public-notification tasks to that schedule [29 Apr 20:50] +Sparks: we only use F/LOSS to create Fedora [29 Apr 20:50] +ke4qqq: So is jjmcd 's NASA calendar open? [29 Apr 20:50] +it's not software [29 Apr 20:50] +lol [29 Apr 20:50] +ke4qqq: It's a process [29 Apr 20:50] +And it doesn't have the notifications on it [29 Apr 20:50] +Ahhhh, *BUT* [29 Apr 20:50] +Sparks: it's just caused flames before - just trying to warn you - though I use Google Calendar personally [29 Apr 20:51] +We don't have a solution in place that helps us with this. [29 Apr 20:51] +We need to get the appropriate events onto the appropriate person's PDA [29 Apr 20:51] +what is this calendar for and what does it need to do? [29 Apr 20:51] +ke4qqq: This isn't to put the word out to the masses... it is being used to help organize already open data. [29 Apr 20:51] Sparks: Waiting for the solution is not as big a problem as making sure the right tasks are on the schedule to begin with. Let's solve first things, first. [29 Apr 20:51] +who wants a piece of me? ;-) [29 Apr 20:51] +I will take up the reminders [29 Apr 20:51] +I just need to figure out who and when [29 Apr 20:51] +speak of the devil [29 Apr 20:51] haha [29 Apr 20:51] +the who is worse than the when [29 Apr 20:51] poelcat: We were just discussing that there are tasks missing on the Docs schedule -- not that they were omitted by anyone, they've just not been captured correctly to start with [29 Apr 20:52] poelcat: in particular, a task to notify the community about wiki freezes well in advance [29 Apr 20:52] or I should say, a task per freeze [29 Apr 20:53] +where is this calendar? [29 Apr 20:53] +send me email with: 1) name of task (should contain verbs); 2) how many days it takes (or not); 3) what it depends on or when it should start [29 Apr 20:53] +philip_, poelstra.fedorapeople.org [29 Apr 20:53] +i'll add it to the source file and then it will magically be reported [29 Apr 20:54] +http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-11/f-11-docs-tasks.html [29 Apr 20:54] + [29 Apr 20:54] * jjmcd has it up an a different screen so couldn't cut and paste [29 Apr 20:55] +Should someone (possibly docs) be responsible for warning of all freezes? This isn't unique to Docs [29 Apr 20:56] jjmcd: It's usually easier for each team to report freezes since changes happen sometimes on a per-team basis, and coordination would be tough [29 Apr 20:56] But... [29 Apr 20:56] There's no doubt that Zikula will help with this -- aiui there's a pretty rad calendar module [29 Apr 20:56] +stickster: I thought we weren't going to use the calendar in Zikula [29 Apr 20:56] +every other group 'warns' re freezes [29 Apr 20:56] +sometimes with not much notice [29 Apr 20:57] Sparks: OK, s/Zikula/$FEDORA_WIDE_CALENDAR/ [29 Apr 20:57] +Isn't there also a shared evolution calendar or some such. [29 Apr 20:57] +Sparks: there is a group in infra evaluating calendars right now [29 Apr 20:57] +Oh, cool [29 Apr 20:57] doesn't matter what the implementation, as long as it's being done openly somewhere [29 Apr 20:57] ke4qqq: Thank you sir! (what he said.) [29 Apr 20:57] +exactly [29 Apr 20:57] +and if infra is working on it thats one less task for us [29 Apr 20:57] +very true [29 Apr 20:58] +Do we know what the status is on that? [29 Apr 20:58] +They have narrowed it down significantly [29 Apr 20:59] +Do you know if they have looked at Zikula? [29 Apr 20:59] Sparks: An email to the appropriate list would be a good way to poke people [29 Apr 20:59] +dropping stuff that won't work or is Java etc. [29 Apr 20:59] +they did [29 Apr 20:59] IRC doesn't get seen by anyone not online. [29 Apr 21:00] I was under the impression that Zikula was a possibility, but I don't know that anyone has said, " will be the calendar, and it will be set up by ." [29 Apr 21:00] +no one has narrowed it down that far [29 Apr 21:00] Anyway, I think we're spending a lot of Docs time on calendars instead of docs at this point. [29 Apr 21:01] +Well... the calendar will be a docs tool. [29 Apr 21:01] Before we got on this topic, jjmcd was talking about release notes status [29 Apr 21:01] +how about for now we say personal calendars along with whats avaliable will be used and its on us to remeber to do this [29 Apr 21:02] + [29 Apr 21:02] * Sparks should have put the freezes on his calendar a while back [29 Apr 21:02] + [29 Apr 21:02] * jjmcd had then on his calendar, but has been in his own little hidey-hole [29 Apr 21:03] Right zoglesby, people are welcome to use their own tools personally, and for anything team-related we should use the available Fedora capabilities [29 Apr 21:03] +jjmcd: Anything else on the RN? [29 Apr 21:03] +I think that's about it, other than the F12 topoc [29 Apr 21:04] +jjmcd: Wanna talk about that now? [29 Apr 21:04] +May as well [29 Apr 21:04] --- Sparks (n=sparks@fedora/Sparks) changed topic: Docs Project - Docs_decisions_for_F12 [29 Apr 21:04] +During F11, a number of questions came up [29 Apr 21:04] +mostly aroung publican [29 Apr 21:04] +We made some short term decisions to push through the F11 notes [29 Apr 21:05] +but between now and F12, we ought to consider the right answers [29 Apr 21:05] +I've listed some of them at Docs_decisions_for_F12 [29 Apr 21:05] +Over the next few weeks I'd like to see us talk about them [29 Apr 21:06] +are we moving everything to publican? [29 Apr 21:06] +FOr F11 we used Publican for the release notes proper, but hammered it into looking the same as F10 [29 Apr 21:06] +So homework for next week's meeting is to review the page and come back with input or questions. [29 Apr 21:06] +ANd bleed on the page [29 Apr 21:06] +maybe add more [29 Apr 21:07] +zoglesby, that is one of the questions [29 Apr 21:07] + [29 Apr 21:07] * zoglesby needs to read that page... [29 Apr 21:09] +Not sure we need to say much more right now [29 Apr 21:09] +Okay... [29 Apr 21:10] --- Sparks (n=sparks@fedora/Sparks) changed topic: Docs Project - DocsProject wiki pages changes [29 Apr 21:10] +Just wanted to touch on this real quick. [29 Apr 21:10] +I worked on the Docs Project page earlier today. [29 Apr 21:11] +I tried to clean up the language and will continue to work on it this week to try to simplify what we are trying to say. [29 Apr 21:12] +There is still some work to do. [29 Apr 21:12] +Any questions or comments? [29 Apr 21:12] +Due to the hour... [29 Apr 21:12] --- Sparks (n=sparks@fedora/Sparks) changed topic: Docs Project - All other business [29 Apr 21:12] +Anyone have anything else? [29 Apr 21:13] +i have a few things but they can probably be discussed in the main channel [29 Apr 21:13] +you guys going to be around for a bit? [29 Apr 21:13] +radsy: I will be [29 Apr 21:13] +wanted to clear up this selinux thing [29 Apr 21:14] +Anything else? [29 Apr 21:14] +i'm good [29 Apr 21:15] +5 [29 Apr 21:15] +4 [29 Apr 21:15] +3 [29 Apr 21:15] +2 [29 Apr 21:15] +1 [29 Apr 21:15] +Thanks everyone for coming! [29 Apr 21:15] + -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Use GnuPG with Firefox : http://getfiregpg.org (Version: 0.7.5) iEYEARECAAYFAkoUlFQACgkQfQTSQL0MFMF/wgCgmA/naUqXDg1Vmuop78QoIHl9 XsEAnizmlUb4eaS5hO0q87097DEt/6hA =k5wQ -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- -- fedora-docs-list mailing list fedora-docs-list@xxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list
