Apr 01 20:00:15 <Sparks> <meeting id="Docs Project"> Apr 01 20:00:15 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Welcome to the Docs Project Meeting - Agenda: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/DocsProject/SteeringCommittee/Meetings Apr 01 20:00:19 <Sparks> Roll call! Apr 01 20:00:20 <quaid> let the boy change the topic at least :) Apr 01 20:00:26 * radsy is here Apr 01 20:00:26 * quaid esta aqui Apr 01 20:00:34 * jjmcd here Apr 01 20:00:42 * Sparks is here Apr 01 20:00:51 * glezos είναι εδώ Apr 01 20:01:15 <glezos> if that seemed all greek to you.. I'm here. Apr 01 20:01:31 <quaid> wordplay! Apr 01 20:01:47 <jjmcd> glezos: sometime in a bar remind me to tell you my story about greek Apr 01 20:01:50 * Sparks er her Apr 01 20:02:20 <jjmcd> -- Apr 01 20:02:23 <Sparks> glezos: Everything looks greek to me at this hour Apr 01 20:02:27 * Renault has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.1b3/20090327190841]") Apr 01 20:02:34 * joat says "me too!" Apr 01 20:02:48 * ryanlerch (n=rlerch@nat/redhat/x-0dd0cf536998819b) has joined #fedora-meeting Apr 01 20:02:58 <Sparks> Okay... I see one of my stars on board so let's go harass him. Apr 01 20:03:04 <Sparks> Oh, I spoke too soon! Both of them! Apr 01 20:03:06 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Status on Release Notes <-- ryanlerch & jjmcd Apr 01 20:03:10 jcm jcollie jds2001 Jeff_S jeremy jjmcd jlaska jnettlet joat juhp jwb Apr 01 20:03:19 <Sparks> jjmcd: Okay, let me have it! Apr 01 20:03:20 <jjmcd> OK, I basically got 4 kinds of beats Apr 01 20:03:23 * rudi (n=rlandman@nat/redhat/x-6dae8d4e0825a1f2) has joined #fedora-meeting Apr 01 20:03:28 <jjmcd> ok' Apr 01 20:04:07 * RodrigoPadula has quit ("Saindo") Apr 01 20:04:30 <jjmcd> Oh Apr 01 20:04:38 <jjmcd> When you said.... never mind Apr 01 20:04:51 <jjmcd> 1) No content in wiki, not sure whether any changes, might drop: Apr 01 20:04:51 <jjmcd> Arch specific, printing, daemons, server config tools Apr 01 20:04:52 <Sparks> jjmcd: You here tonight? I might not be Apr 01 20:05:01 <jjmcd> 2) Limited content in wiki, might go with limited content: Apr 01 20:05:01 <jjmcd> Entertainment, Live, Security Apr 01 20:05:08 <jjmcd> 3) NEED CONTENT: Apr 01 20:05:08 <jjmcd> Networking, boot, web, mail, database, file servers Apr 01 20:05:15 <jjmcd> 4) Significant chunks of wiki to convert: Apr 01 20:05:16 <jjmcd> Virtualization, Xorg, Cluster, Kernel Apr 01 20:05:16 <jjmcd> (Virtualization is an update hence tedious, Xorg could use more content) Apr 01 20:05:26 <jjmcd> Just talked to Ryan, he can deal with xorg Apr 01 20:05:44 <jjmcd> The more help we can get the less we will have to drop, but basically Apr 01 20:05:56 <jjmcd> we need to be done midday tommorow eastern so we can make the pot Apr 01 20:06:15 <Sparks> jjmcd: Have you worked the kinks out of the pot? Apr 01 20:06:25 <jjmcd> We know how to make the pot Apr 01 20:06:31 <Sparks> cool Apr 01 20:06:33 <jjmcd> We think we can then use the result Apr 01 20:06:41 <jjmcd> That second part hasn't been proven, but Apr 01 20:06:51 <jjmcd> stickster and glezos seem to thinnk it isn't a problem Apr 01 20:06:59 <Sparks> And you are going with that? Apr 01 20:07:03 <Sparks> :) Apr 01 20:07:03 <jjmcd> yes Apr 01 20:07:06 <Sparks> So what do you need from me/Docs? Apr 01 20:07:06 <quaid> right, it's no worse than what we've done in the past Apr 01 20:07:26 <rudi> There are a few strings in the po files for the F10 notes that can be reused: the Welcome section and maybe some section titles Apr 01 20:07:26 <jjmcd> We could use some hands to research servers, networking Apr 01 20:07:36 <jjmcd> and do some of the remaining conversions Apr 01 20:07:45 <jjmcd> without the py tools it is basically cut and paste Apr 01 20:08:01 <quaid> jjmcd: you mean the xml conversion tools? Apr 01 20:08:06 <jjmcd> yeah Apr 01 20:08:18 <Sparks> Okay, I think there have been some advances to the NetworkManager... not sure about the rest Apr 01 20:08:19 <jjmcd> the ones that need some library or another and don't work anymore Apr 01 20:08:27 * stickster_afk is now known as stickster Apr 01 20:08:28 <jjmcd> I'm not so sure cut/paste isn't easier anyway Apr 01 20:08:35 <quaid> jjmcd: aren't there packages we can use now, although not yet in the repo? Apr 01 20:08:48 <jjmcd> Seems like there was something broken Apr 01 20:08:53 * quaid is sorry, shall we hold tool discussions for a bit? Apr 01 20:09:04 <Sparks> quaid: Yeah, that's coming up Apr 01 20:09:10 <jjmcd> Yeah, there's only a few larger pieces anyway Apr 01 20:09:18 <Sparks> quaid: Of course we can merge the topics... Apr 01 20:09:23 <jjmcd> cut/paste probably would take a total of a couple of hours Apr 01 20:09:27 * quaid should wait :) Apr 01 20:09:34 <jjmcd> but if someone does that I can research the missing pieces Apr 01 20:09:58 <Sparks> Okay... who can step up for some last minute research and converting? Apr 01 20:10:16 <Sparks> The first ten people get a piece of cherry pie (I baked yesterday). Apr 01 20:10:30 <stickster> quaid: Are you guys talking about the problems with mw-render? Apr 01 20:10:42 <Sparks> jjmcd: I can try to get some additional information on NetworkManager. Apr 01 20:10:45 <stickster> quaid: Are you guys talking about the problems with mw-render? Apr 01 20:10:55 <stickster> jjmcd: ^^ Apr 01 20:11:00 <jjmcd> That would be a help Apr 01 20:11:01 <quaid> stickster: yes Apr 01 20:11:01 <jjmcd> yes Apr 01 20:11:10 <stickster> I think you can download the odfpy07 review SRPM package that's in Bugzilla and rebuild it locally Apr 01 20:11:15 <jjmcd> but over the past few weeks we've gotten most dome by hand Apr 01 20:11:20 <quaid> that's what I'm talking 'bout! Apr 01 20:11:27 <jjmcd> so rather than spend time trying to make the tool work Apr 01 20:11:44 <joat> when's it needed by? Apr 01 20:11:50 <jjmcd> Tomorrow Apr 01 20:11:53 <Sparks> at noon Apr 01 20:11:55 <jjmcd> and most of the conversion is done Apr 01 20:11:58 <stickster> jjmcd: Yeah, you don't want to spin useful cycles making a tool work when you could just do some elbow grease Apr 01 20:11:59 <jjmcd> thanks to Ryan Apr 01 20:12:00 <Sparks> jjmcd: is that noon EDT? Apr 01 20:12:08 <joat> ouch... Apr 01 20:12:22 <jjmcd> I figure noon EDT or so will give us plenty of time for pits, git branches etc Apr 01 20:12:27 <jjmcd> pots I mean Apr 01 20:12:38 <Sparks> pots or pits Apr 01 20:12:48 <jjmcd> We still need a strategy for l10n Apr 01 20:12:55 <quaid> I clarified on the timing to f-devel-l et al, fwiw Apr 01 20:13:09 <jjmcd> to see a clean one pot system while not loosing our 30~ pots Apr 01 20:13:24 <jjmcd> but I don't see that as a big problem Apr 01 20:14:03 <stickster> jjmcd: The "strategy" is, I think, to create a new git branch, put the one POT in that branch and remove the other POTs, have Transifex use that branch, and let the L10n'ers know. Apr 01 20:14:13 <jjmcd> Yep I think that's it Apr 01 20:14:26 <quaid> that's more like a tactic, in my book :) Apr 01 20:14:30 <stickster> The 'master' branch will retain everything in a normal Publican fashion Apr 01 20:14:54 <jjmcd> that was my thought, assuming tx can use an arbitrary branch Apr 01 20:14:54 <stickster> quaid: Yeah, you caught me, but I think that's what was asked for Apr 01 20:14:58 <quaid> we need to interact with an admin of translate.fedoraproject.org Apr 01 20:15:09 <quaid> although theoretically we could grow knowledge of how to add modules within our group, if we want Apr 01 20:15:13 <stickster> I'm sure either Rasther or glezos would be able to help there. Apr 01 20:15:30 <rudi> So are we planning to have L10N create one big po per language? Apr 01 20:15:37 <jjmcd> yep Apr 01 20:15:53 <jjmcd> Then we will merge those strings into the individual pos Apr 01 20:15:54 <quaid> and then slice it up to reinsert in to Publican? Apr 01 20:16:00 <jjmcd> exactly Apr 01 20:16:07 <quaid> ah, ok, that's a nicer way to say it, merge. Apr 01 20:16:28 <jjmcd> Apparently there is some tool Apr 01 20:16:28 <Sparks> slice and dice Apr 01 20:16:30 <rudi> That will be an non-trivial task for the Install guide with ~700 po files Apr 01 20:16:55 <quaid> only if it requires manual intervention? Apr 01 20:16:57 <jjmcd> bash is my friend Apr 01 20:17:04 * laubersm (n=laubersm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) has joined #fedora-meeting Apr 01 20:17:24 <stickster> jjmcd: yes, msgmerge Apr 01 20:17:25 <jjmcd> I'm happy to see so many people raise their hands to help Apr 01 20:17:44 * quaid loves to play in bash Apr 01 20:18:11 * jjmcd often reverts to C - the angels' language Apr 01 20:18:11 <stickster> jjmcd: I can do the Virt beat Apr 01 20:18:25 <quaid> where is the list? Apr 01 20:18:31 <stickster> quaid: See above ^^^^ Apr 01 20:18:35 <jjmcd> We got good content, but the conversion will be a bit of a pain Apr 01 20:18:36 * laubersm pops in to try to catch up Apr 01 20:18:47 <stickster> 'round 00:04 Apr 01 20:19:08 <jjmcd> http://fpaste.org/paste/7653 Apr 01 20:20:17 <jjmcd> laubersm: Need to get done tomorrow midday ehat we're talking about Apr 01 20:20:20 <Sparks> jjmcd: Is there anything we can steal/borrow from KDE and GNOME for arch specific? Apr 01 20:20:33 <stickster> Sparks: Wouldn't make sense, they're higher up the stack. Apr 01 20:20:45 <stickster> Typically those involve things like minimum hardware requirements and install gotchas Apr 01 20:20:54 <Sparks> stickster: Ahhh.. Okay Apr 01 20:20:55 <jjmcd> I didn't see anything arch specific there - I'm not so sure there really is anything Apr 01 20:21:11 <jjmcd> OK, so maybe we need to review the F10 notes Apr 01 20:22:07 <Sparks> Okay... let's come back to this at the end to get the volunteers. Apr 01 20:22:28 <Sparks> any other questions about the Release notes? Apr 01 20:22:58 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Beat writers flagging content for alpha/beta one-sheet Apr 01 20:23:10 <quaid> ok, this was mine Apr 01 20:23:12 <Sparks> Okay... not sure what this is but I'm pretty sure I didn't put it up Apr 01 20:23:14 <Sparks> Oh good... Apr 01 20:23:16 <Sparks> Go quaid Apr 01 20:23:55 <quaid> a question came up on f-i18n-l because they have some cool new tech (ibus) that didn't get in either the announcement and or the one page Beta notes Apr 01 20:24:01 <quaid> I'm sure it's on their beat Apr 01 20:24:06 * inode0 has quit ("Leaving.") Apr 01 20:24:08 <quaid> and that is where it *should* be, right? Apr 01 20:24:12 <quaid> they right one source, etc. Apr 01 20:24:26 <quaid> but how do the rest of us know what needs early Alpha or Beta mention, talking points, etc. Apr 01 20:24:31 <quaid> other than combing features, etc. Apr 01 20:24:35 <quaid> so I wondered what to do? Apr 01 20:24:53 <quaid> at the least, give beat writers a way to flag their content as worth a mention in either the Alpha or Beta or Preview ... Apr 01 20:25:30 * jjmcd would rather leave that to the marketing guys Apr 01 20:25:53 * k0k (n=k0k@fedora/k0k) has joined #fedora-meeting Apr 01 20:25:57 * Sparks has an idea Apr 01 20:26:27 <quaid> jjmcd: well, the announcement and talking points ... but what about release notes worthy content? and can this all be covered with one set of instructions for beat writers? Apr 01 20:26:38 * izaac has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) Apr 01 20:26:39 * quaid has no plan fwiw Apr 01 20:26:45 <Sparks> Okay... Just an idea... Apr 01 20:26:48 <quaid> just that we have a system we can build on, etc. Apr 01 20:26:51 * quaid listens Apr 01 20:27:10 <Sparks> If each beat is its own page... Apr 01 20:27:17 <Sparks> they can be marked with a category... Apr 01 20:27:28 <Sparks> and then we can use those categories to create the docs... Apr 01 20:27:48 <Sparks> so when they are ready for their item to be included they just add the appropriate cat. Apr 01 20:27:52 <Sparks> <eof> Apr 01 20:28:03 <quaid> aren't they in a category or two already? Apr 01 20:28:21 <Sparks> Maybe... Apr 01 20:28:28 <quaid> ok, we could have a [[Category:Release notes beat Beta content]] for example Apr 01 20:28:33 <Sparks> yes Apr 01 20:28:39 * quaid sees that some are not in a category, *ick* :D Apr 01 20:28:43 <Sparks> So we would see when something got added to that cat. Apr 01 20:28:55 <quaid> right, that sources it Apr 01 20:29:03 <jjmcd> The category makes a page, tho. DevTools has over 100 changes Apr 01 20:29:06 <Sparks> This is being done for something but I don't remember what it is Apr 01 20:29:15 <quaid> if they want to consider something as a talking point for release announcements and PR, they could add that cat, too, i suppose. Apr 01 20:29:38 <Sparks> And they shouldn't add the cat until they are DONE... finished... no more editing. Apr 01 20:29:41 <quaid> jjmcd: so we'd need some way within the page to mark specific content ... Apr 01 20:29:48 <jjmcd> Yeah Apr 01 20:29:51 <quaid> Sparks: well, not for Beta, for example Apr 01 20:30:01 <Sparks> Well............ Apr 01 20:30:02 <Sparks> yeah Apr 01 20:30:13 <quaid> and we need to churn discussion before beats are done; Paul and marketing Apr 01 20:30:30 <quaid> have been talking up stuff that are mainly Apr 01 20:30:32 <quaid> in feature pages. Apr 01 20:31:04 <jjmcd> That discussion mostly on dev-list? Apr 01 20:31:15 <quaid> no, I mean Marketing Apr 01 20:31:28 <quaid> to the press, blogs, talking points, etc. Apr 01 20:31:54 * stickster points out that Marketing concentrates on just a few features that have a really compelling story that can be built around them Apr 01 20:31:57 <jjmcd> mmmm .... good point, there are a lot of cool stuff that ain't on the feature pages Apr 01 20:32:34 <quaid> stickster: I'm thinking we might as well have a way for beat writers to hook in to that machine with suggestions without having to create a feature page; a feature doesn't always apply, does it? Apr 01 20:32:57 <stickster> What do you mean, have beat writers suggest stories to Marketing? Apr 01 20:33:23 <quaid> a beat writer may know about a technical change that is worthy of being a talking point, but that isn't a Feature Apr 01 20:33:32 * k0k has quit ("Saliendo") Apr 01 20:33:39 <quaid> and since Docs Apr 01 20:33:43 <quaid> does the release announcements Apr 01 20:33:53 <quaid> and does it on more than just the talking points for the Alpha ... PR Apr 01 20:34:06 <quaid> it helps if we know some of that too, right? Apr 01 20:34:20 <jjmcd> There are many groups of features that would be exciting to some niche audiences. I don't know whether the marketing guys have the cycles for that, but it could be fertile ground Apr 01 20:34:35 <quaid> well, we can collect it without using it. Apr 01 20:34:35 <stickster> jjmcd: The point of the Marketing talking points is to reach the widest possible audience Apr 01 20:34:54 <jjmcd> Yes, so it is different from the talking points Apr 01 20:34:55 <stickster> quaid: I guess I'm not seeing where a technical change that's not a feature is going to be important enough to qualify Apr 01 20:35:08 <stickster> Maybe an example would help Apr 01 20:35:08 <quaid> however, we have niche audiences that could get niche release focuse; e.g. software developers Apr 01 20:35:15 <jjmcd> exctly Apr 01 20:35:32 <jjmcd> Chitlesh has a nice story for electronic designers Apr 01 20:35:50 <jjmcd> there are a lot of goodies for hams Apr 01 20:35:53 <stickster> quaid: And that's the purpose of the reorganized release notes, right? Apr 01 20:35:55 <quaid> heh, I dunno, if it's not a feature, how do I know about it? Apr 01 20:36:10 <stickster> i.e. "New for Software Developers," "New for SysAdmins," etc. Apr 01 20:36:23 <quaid> stickster: right, and having a beat writer call out the top 10 items from 100 devel tool changes would be helpful Apr 01 20:36:25 <jjmcd> But do you go tell that to Dr. Dobbs Journal? Apr 01 20:37:08 <stickster> I think it's important for us not to overload the talking point process right now, which is young and still unsteady on its feet Apr 01 20:37:10 <quaid> stickster: well, ok, I guess it undermines the feature process of "own it enough to make a feature page and you get marketing attention" Apr 01 20:37:20 <stickster> quaid: Good point. Apr 01 20:37:25 <quaid> but we can collect that info via categories Apr 01 20:37:38 <quaid> to gather foci for Alpha, Beta, and PR Apr 01 20:37:55 <quaid> I think the final announcement needs to continue the tight-and-not-overloaded following of the talking points we have established. Apr 01 20:38:09 <jjmcd> Yes I agree Apr 01 20:38:22 <quaid> ok, I'll make a note in my ever morphing task list Apr 01 20:38:33 <quaid> to create a set of categories for the beats to use as a workflow/transition state flags Apr 01 20:38:35 * jsmith (n=jsmith@asterisk/training-and-documentation-guru/jsmith) has joined #fedora-meeting Apr 01 20:38:38 <jjmcd> But it seems to me it would be cool id Paul colud have a story for some niche publications that might not be interested in just another Linux release Apr 01 20:38:44 * zwu|gone is now known as zwu Apr 01 20:38:48 <quaid> and we can publicize those for the Preview Release Apr 01 20:39:09 <quaid> jjmcd: well, maybe the process of convering as we go on the relnotes helps him find that stuff earlier Apr 01 20:39:45 <jjmcd> Perhaps we should have some "cool for this audience" wiki pages Apr 01 20:40:00 * Sparks notes that it is 40 minutes after the hour and spot needs to go eat... Apr 01 20:40:56 <Sparks> quaid: So you have a plan? Apr 01 20:40:56 * quaid is done with his task taken Apr 01 20:41:01 <Sparks> :) Apr 01 20:41:02 <quaid> I think we got it, yeah Apr 01 20:41:04 <Sparks> anything else? Apr 01 20:41:05 <quaid> thx Apr 01 20:41:09 <quaid> eoitem Apr 01 20:41:16 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - An update to "Publican fix for Fedora?" Apr 01 20:41:25 <quaid> thx for hanging spot :D Apr 01 20:41:28 <spot> so... let me make a few points quickly here Apr 01 20:41:42 <spot> I have given this a LOT of thought over the last day or so Apr 01 20:41:58 <spot> especially after learning about the limitations of our build/errata tools and RPM Apr 01 20:42:24 <spot> my biggest concern about lang separated SRPMs is this: In RHEL, there are 2,104 doc packages Apr 01 20:42:37 <spot> thats 2104 reviews. Apr 01 20:42:41 <Sparks> wow Apr 01 20:42:46 <stickster> That's scary. Apr 01 20:42:52 <jsmith> A plethora! Apr 01 20:43:00 <spot> i honestly don't think it scales without a concerted effort Apr 01 20:43:19 <spot> now, if you guys say "we'll tag team and knock them all out on our own", then i will back away slowly Apr 01 20:43:47 <spot> as is, we approved the other two items that were on FPC's agenda on tuesday Apr 01 20:43:56 <spot> * permitting desktop files inline Apr 01 20:44:15 <spot> * allowing distro versioning in name when Docs Project determines it is necessary Apr 01 20:44:33 <spot> so, once FESCo ratifies those items Apr 01 20:44:43 <spot> (which they should do on Friday, hopefully) Apr 01 20:44:54 <quaid> should we have $who there? Apr 01 20:45:12 <spot> there would be nothing preventing you guys from filing package review requests for several thousand doc packages Apr 01 20:45:29 <spot> the guidelines don't say you can't carpetbomb the review requests Apr 01 20:46:01 * stickster shudders to see other packager reaction at both that, and then the film-in-reverse anti-carpetbombing of review approvals Apr 01 20:46:24 <spot> i really wish there was a way to make the lang packages as subpackages, but in talking to folks like paul and mike hideo about this issue, i don't think that it is possible Apr 01 20:46:29 * Sparks thinks we'll have to get a B-29 for the bombing Apr 01 20:46:49 <spot> the only thing i would suggest is this Apr 01 20:47:05 <spot> Write a simplified template for doing publican based doc reviews Apr 01 20:47:18 <spot> also, write a review checklist Apr 01 20:47:23 <spot> and publicize the hell out of it Apr 01 20:47:38 <spot> so that you have an example "good spec" and a checklist Apr 01 20:47:49 <spot> i'd be happy to sanity check both Apr 01 20:48:05 <spot> then, i wish you luck and i hide in my bunker Apr 01 20:48:13 <jjmcd> ;) Apr 01 20:48:15 <quaid> isn't Publican supposed to kick out an SRPM that can be directly and minimally reviewed? Apr 01 20:48:20 <Sparks> We'll definitely be checking in with you so we are all in sync. Apr 01 20:48:29 <Sparks> quaid: Supposed to Apr 01 20:48:30 <quaid> that is, once the base of what it does is approved or fixed or whathaveyou ... Apr 01 20:48:50 <Sparks> quaid: Once Publican behaves itself then it should be too difficult to review. Apr 01 20:48:51 <spot> quaid: yes, but you have to realize that the average person is going to see "HolyCrap-Documentation_Everywhere-OMG_WTF-1.0-ja" Apr 01 20:48:58 <spot> and they aren't going to want to review it. Apr 01 20:49:07 <quaid> are we considering the multiple language SRPMS because: Apr 01 20:49:16 <quaid> a) Publican only supports that and we have no choice Apr 01 20:49:28 <quaid> b) We think it's the right way to go (f-r-n is 20 MB and growing ...) Apr 01 20:49:40 <spot> quaid: our infrastructure can't handle updating just a single lang subpackage Apr 01 20:49:42 <quaid> c) Publican could be made to support something else and we'd prefer that, but can't make that happen Apr 01 20:49:59 <Sparks> d) all of the above Apr 01 20:50:05 <spot> so, if that is important to you, your only real option is to separate out by lang Apr 01 20:50:12 <quaid> ah Apr 01 20:50:19 <spot> i tried literally for several hours to find another way Apr 01 20:50:21 <quaid> so if i want to update the French release notes Apr 01 20:50:23 <spot> there just isn't one Apr 01 20:50:26 <stickster> quaid: Yeah, ianweller unfortunately was mistaken about that one Apr 01 20:50:27 <quaid> right now I need to push a whole package Apr 01 20:50:36 <quaid> and with subpackages, i would have to update the base and all the subs? Apr 01 20:50:51 <quaid> but with true stand-alone perlang packages, i can update them individually. Apr 01 20:50:57 <stickster> quaid: Right. Apr 01 20:51:00 <quaid> ok Apr 01 20:51:07 <stickster> At least, spot and f13 both say that's how it works. Apr 01 20:51:13 <stickster> (which to me means bankworthy) Apr 01 20:51:14 <quaid> so Apr 01 20:51:28 <quaid> if (b) is the way, we think it's right and Publican is pushing us in the right direction ... Apr 01 20:51:37 <quaid> then doesn't our decision fall from that realization? Apr 01 20:51:46 <spot> well, again, the question is: Apr 01 20:51:59 <spot> how realistic is your need to push single lang subpackages separately? Apr 01 20:52:02 <rudi> Packaged up I don't know how big it would be, but right now the IG with its 36 languages and dozens of screenshots in each language is up to 600 MB here Apr 01 20:52:07 <jjmcd> We have a ways to go before we get to "thousands", but not as far as we would like Apr 01 20:52:09 <spot> if it is a real need, then its a need. Apr 01 20:52:21 <glezos> stickster, indeed, we'll be happy to provide any help requested. Apr 01 20:52:37 <quaid> rudi: hot diggity! Apr 01 20:53:00 <stickster> It's a real need in my experience, IFF. we want to respond to translation updates quickly and uniformly from web to RPM. Apr 01 20:53:20 <quaid> (user guide + install guide + release notes + security guide + selinux guide) * 10 $lang_average == about what we can expect Apr 01 20:53:35 <spot> stickster: okay then. your only option is lang separated packages. Apr 01 20:53:43 <quaid> so not 2000, more like 50+ and not all at once Apr 01 20:54:02 <spot> your biggest hurdle will be getting them reviewed Apr 01 20:54:05 <glezos> stickster, the Q is how quickly? We have the same needs with normal packages, but we don't have langpacks. Apr 01 20:54:25 <stickster> glezos: For much the same reasons Apr 01 20:54:32 <stickster> Look, Docs is blazing a trail! Apr 01 20:54:32 <quaid> we need a few sponsors in Apr 01 20:54:33 <stickster> wooo Apr 01 20:54:34 <quaid> Docs Apr 01 20:54:53 * quaid looks at ke4qqq Apr 01 20:55:02 <spot> you don't have to be a sponsor to do a review. Apr 01 20:55:05 <spot> just sponsored. Apr 01 20:55:12 <quaid> ok Apr 01 20:55:23 <spot> and if you're low on that front, let me know Apr 01 20:55:25 <quaid> I don't want the review process in our way. Apr 01 20:55:31 <spot> i can almost certainly sponsor some folks Apr 01 20:55:37 <stickster> I'm sponsored Apr 01 20:55:41 * quaid will sign up Apr 01 20:55:45 <stickster> I maintain some packages already Apr 01 20:55:53 * Sparks would like to be Apr 01 20:56:07 <stickster> What would be *most* helpful is for someoneNotMe() to write the template review. Apr 01 20:56:10 <quaid> Sparks: let's do it, like buddy parachuting! Apr 01 20:56:16 * izaac (n=izaac@fedora/izaac) has joined #fedora-meeting Apr 01 20:56:25 <Sparks> If we could manage it all in house, that could alleviate some of the problems that we are facing, imo Apr 01 20:56:26 <stickster> If the template's there, I can commit to a mess o' reviews. Apr 01 20:56:52 * Sparks votes to give all packages to stickster for review Apr 01 20:57:00 <Sparks> quaid: Yeah! Apr 01 20:57:07 * spot hates to run, but is there anything else you need from me? :) Apr 01 20:57:22 <Sparks> spot: What does it take to knight us? Apr 01 20:57:53 <spot> Sparks: if by that you mean "sponsor", i just need to see that you possess basic RPM competancy and an understanding of the Fedora Packaging Guidelines Apr 01 20:58:01 <spot> usually, i do that with a new package review Apr 01 20:58:20 * Sparks has had his package in review since DECEMBER! Apr 01 20:58:30 <spot> Sparks: email me the bz Apr 01 20:58:34 <spot> i will look at it tomorrow Apr 01 20:58:49 <Sparks> spot: I will but you'll hate it. Apr 01 20:58:50 <Sparks> :) Apr 01 20:58:57 <Sparks> Okay, anything else for spot? Apr 01 20:58:58 <spot> is it mono? java? Apr 01 20:59:03 <jjmcd> Don't takt Sparks away from the Networking RNs Apr 01 20:59:06 <spot> fortran77? Apr 01 20:59:09 <Sparks> spot: Security-Guide Apr 01 20:59:17 <quaid> Sparks: I think you have what you need if FESCo ratifies to get it approved, right? Apr 01 20:59:26 <Sparks> quaid: Kinda... Apr 01 20:59:37 <quaid> he's already on the Cc: on that bug iirc Apr 01 20:59:41 <Sparks> Ok Apr 01 20:59:51 <Sparks> Thanks spot! Go have some supper. Apr 01 20:59:57 <spot> thanks guys, good luck. Apr 01 20:59:59 <quaid> so update the bug with the ratified guidelines as a tickler :) Apr 01 21:00:01 <quaid> thx Sparks Apr 01 21:00:04 <quaid> spot I mean! Apr 01 21:00:10 * spot puts on his crash helmet and dives into a foxhole Apr 01 21:00:19 <Sparks> spot: Yeah, that's probably needed. Apr 01 21:00:25 <Sparks> Okay, so anything else on the topic? Apr 01 21:00:41 <quaid> Docs_team++ Apr 01 21:00:51 <Sparks> Okay... next up is... Apr 01 21:00:54 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Fedora Documentation Steering Committee (FDSC) Charter Apr 01 21:01:02 <Sparks> Wow, is this thing old... Apr 01 21:01:19 <jjmcd> stable - better word Apr 01 21:01:20 * leitz (n=leitz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) has joined #fedora-meeting Apr 01 21:01:26 * lfoppiano has quit ("Ex-Chat") Apr 01 21:01:53 <Sparks> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs_Project_Steering_Committee_charter Apr 01 21:02:00 <Sparks> jjmcd: Ha! Apr 01 21:02:07 <Sparks> Oh, it's stable... and buggy Apr 01 21:02:37 <Sparks> So I'm not going to get into it tonight but take a peek at it, add your comments to the Talk page, and we'll come back to it next week. Apr 01 21:02:58 <Sparks> Questions? Comments? Crude remarks? Apr 01 21:03:14 <quaid> mmm, tasty cruft Apr 01 21:03:36 <Sparks> Okay... next up is... Apr 01 21:03:38 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - CMS Update <-- ke4qqq Apr 01 21:03:47 <Sparks> ke4qqq: What do you have for us tonight? Apr 01 21:04:31 <Sparks> ke4qqq: ??? Apr 01 21:05:01 <Sparks> Okay, he might not be here tonight. I know the core has been packaged and he was working on getting modules packaged. Apr 01 21:05:16 <Sparks> If anyone has some spare time I'm sure he could use you to work on packaging. Apr 01 21:05:32 <Sparks> Questions? Comments? Apr 01 21:05:46 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - DocsProject wiki pages changes Apr 01 21:06:09 <Sparks> Okay, so I archived some pages today that were dealing with FDSCo stuff from years past. Apr 01 21:06:33 <jjmcd> You're erasing our history??? Apr 01 21:06:37 <Sparks> laubersm: What tasks are pending for the wiki? Apr 01 21:06:39 * danielsmw gasps Apr 01 21:06:46 <Sparks> jjmcd: Archiving is NOT the same as erasing. Apr 01 21:06:50 <Sparks> gees Apr 01 21:07:04 * Sparks wishes he could archive jjmcd... :) Apr 01 21:07:10 * danielsmw gasps again Apr 01 21:07:21 <jjmcd> That guy is nothing but trouble Apr 01 21:07:40 <Sparks> Have we stayed up past everyone's bed time? Apr 01 21:07:48 * Sparks has changed the topic to: Docs Project - Open Discussion Apr 01 21:07:51 <jjmcd> I saw laubersm come in Apr 01 21:08:00 <Sparks> Okay... It's late... does anyone have anything they want to talk about? Apr 01 21:08:01 * glezos still sees his name on an FDSCo page and wondering why the hell it's there since there are so many awesome guys working on Docs today. Apr 01 21:08:02 <danielsmw> Oh, I have something to say Apr 01 21:08:15 <stickster> It's better to burn out than to fade away! Apr 01 21:08:15 * laubersm is on pda = slow typing Apr 01 21:08:21 <danielsmw> A while ago I made a compat package to make mw-render work again Apr 01 21:08:26 <Sparks> laubersm: yikes Apr 01 21:08:34 <danielsmw> but i'm not getting sponsored because i basically do no other packaging Apr 01 21:08:36 <quaid> glezos: cruft abounds in the house of the carpenter Apr 01 21:08:40 <danielsmw> anyone else want to take it and submit? Apr 01 21:08:57 <glezos> quaid, what can we do to change it? Apr 01 21:09:05 * inode0 (n=inode0@fedora/inode0) has joined #fedora-meeting Apr 01 21:09:08 <quaid> glezos: volunteer to help clean up wiki pages :) Apr 01 21:09:14 <Sparks> danielsmw: That sucks... Okay, so do you have a bz ticket #? Apr 01 21:09:23 <glezos> oh -- it's just wiki pages then. Apr 01 21:09:24 <quaid> danielsmw: I think you should get to be the packager Apr 01 21:09:25 <danielsmw> Sparks: yeah, hold on Apr 01 21:09:32 <danielsmw> quaid: a good idea as well Apr 01 21:09:39 <quaid> glezos: well, maybe f-docs-l admin or something, stuff that's decentralized Apr 01 21:09:51 <danielsmw> Sparks: 491946 Apr 01 21:10:06 <Sparks> .bug 491946 Apr 01 21:10:08 <buggbot> Bug https://bugzilla.redhat.com/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=491946 medium, low, ---, nobody, NEW, Review Request: odfpy07 - compat package for odfpy Apr 01 21:10:10 <zodbot> Sparks: Bug 491946 Review Request: odfpy07 - compat package for odfpy - https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=491946 Apr 01 21:10:11 <buggbot> Bug 491946: medium, low, ---, nobody, NEW, Review Request: odfpy07 - compat package for odfpy Apr 01 21:11:04 <Sparks> stickster: you said you could review packages? Apr 01 21:11:14 <Sparks> :) Apr 01 21:11:43 <quaid> how about abadger1999 or spot Apr 01 21:11:49 <Sparks> Yeah, spot! Apr 01 21:12:19 <Sparks> danielsmw: It took my package a while to get noticed. I think mhideo went and poked one of his Brisbane guys to do it. Apr 01 21:12:20 <abadger1999> k. I'll take it. Apr 01 21:12:33 <Sparks> Now that's service right there. Apr 01 21:12:42 <quaid> yeah, we can do better reviewing within this team Apr 01 21:12:43 <abadger1999> Are we sure that the package can't be ported to the current version of odfpy? Apr 01 21:12:43 <danielsmw> lol Apr 01 21:12:51 <quaid> and call in favors once it's ready to get sponsorship Apr 01 21:13:15 <Sparks> quaid: +1 Apr 01 21:14:01 <Sparks> laubersm: Did you have anything for us tonight? Apr 01 21:14:10 <laubersm> no Apr 01 21:14:28 <jjmcd> laubersm: Want to help with research/conversion? Apr 01 21:14:30 <Sparks> laubersm: Okay, wanted to give you a chance to get in there with all the background noise going on. Apr 01 21:15:11 <quaid> jjmcd: I'm going to try really, really hard to appear at the right time and do whatever needs doing at that point. Apr 01 21:15:30 <quaid> is there an active [[Release notes tasks]] list? Apr 01 21:15:49 <jjmcd> I have an ODS, I should make it a wikipage I guess Apr 01 21:16:04 <jjmcd> But I see things disappearing from the list as we speak Apr 01 21:16:04 <quaid> yes plz Apr 01 21:16:13 <quaid> ah, your list Apr 01 21:16:35 <quaid> we just need on of the usual status with tracker and who has what "write, edit, convert to xml" columns Apr 01 21:16:39 <jjmcd> yes, what I fpasted is basically the short version Apr 01 21:16:50 * laubersm is teaching this on the road... will check list tomorrow Apr 01 21:17:24 <jjmcd> I suspect by the end of the Brisbane workday the list may look different Apr 01 21:17:34 <laubersm> rn due thur? time in edt? Apr 01 21:17:58 <jjmcd> Need pots by 2359 and we need some time to prepare the pots Apr 01 21:18:06 <jjmcd> 2359Z that is Apr 01 21:18:17 * warren has quit ("Leaving") Apr 01 21:18:18 <jjmcd> so 19L59 EDT Apr 01 21:18:33 * laubersm has time fri but that doesnt help Apr 01 21:19:04 <jjmcd> No, Friday we will be sorting the spec file and how to tear the big POs apart Apr 01 21:19:04 * zwu has quit (Remote closed the connection) Apr 01 21:19:15 <quaid> I didn't see any more pushback or request for more time Apr 01 21:19:31 <quaid> but we'll likely see new content for the final notes Apr 01 21:19:42 <quaid> that might have been in this time, possibly maybe Apr 01 21:19:47 <jjmcd> quaid: We can make 2359, but the more hands the better the quality Apr 01 21:19:56 <quaid> righto Apr 01 21:20:13 <rudi> Quick question - I feel like I'm missing the point of something here; why are the individual po files still a problem for L10N? Apr 01 21:20:33 * Sonar_Guy has quit ("Leaving") Apr 01 21:20:40 <jjmcd> Transifex only can deal with one Apr 01 21:21:18 <jjmcd> Kinda like Publican, and easy fix but ...... Apr 01 21:21:59 <rudi> But I've seen translators committing translations of the Publican Common Content sections; with more than one po file in the directories in question Apr 01 21:22:11 <quaid> via Tx? Apr 01 21:22:16 <rudi> Yep Apr 01 21:22:38 <quaid> well, even after Paul and Dimitris explained it today, I still had gaps in my brain about it. Apr 01 21:23:10 <rudi> Let me verify what I believe I've seen; but we can talk about that after the meeting anyway Apr 01 21:23:17 <quaid> I got that the web interface doesn't have a way to display (for download, upload, statistics) the individual PO/POT files Apr 01 21:23:20 <quaid> k Apr 01 21:23:47 <Sparks> Anything else? Apr 01 21:24:18 <Sparks> 5 Apr 01 21:24:22 <Sparks> 4 Apr 01 21:24:24 <Sparks> 3 Apr 01 21:24:27 <Sparks> 2 Apr 01 21:24:30 <Sparks> 1 Apr 01 21:24:34 <Sparks> Thanks everyone for coming! Apr 01 21:24:34 <Sparks> </meeting>
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