Feb 14 04:57:31 <EvilBob> Sparks: http://bjensen.fedorapeople.org/pkgs/docs/ Feb 14 04:58:09 <EvilBob> jfearn: hope it is OK with you that I built your packages for F8 Feb 14 04:58:47 <jfearn> EvilBob, cool Feb 14 04:58:51 * Tsagadai has quit ("NO CARRIER") Feb 14 04:59:06 * Tsagadai (n=ccurran@nat/redhat/x-1787ddbd7ce46934) has joined #fedora-docs Feb 14 04:59:30 <stickster> So I assume everyone will want to have a .repo file pointing to Bob's repo (above) and then 'yum install publican-fedora' Feb 14 04:59:54 * jwulf_ (n=jwulf@nat/redhat/x-00522800009fc0bb) has joined #fedora-docs Feb 14 04:59:59 <EvilBob> stickster: also maybe publican-doc Feb 14 05:00:01 <Sparks> Where does the repo file go? Feb 14 05:00:06 <stickster> Right, I pulled that one too, thanks Feb 14 05:00:13 <stickster> Sparks: in /etc/yum.repos.d/ Feb 14 05:00:13 <EvilBob> Sparks: /etc/yum.repos.d Feb 14 05:00:19 <Sparks> Ahhh Feb 14 05:00:19 <Sparks> Okay Feb 14 05:00:23 <jwulf_> who am i? Feb 14 05:00:32 <Tsagadai> jwulf :) Feb 14 05:00:44 <noriko> hi Feb 14 05:00:47 <jwulf_> no, i'm jwulf_ Feb 14 05:01:03 <EvilBob> can we just call you Josh? Feb 14 05:01:03 <jfearn> jwulf_, the pope Feb 14 05:01:22 * mdious pokes bforte Feb 14 05:01:28 <jwulf_> EvilBob, sure Feb 14 05:01:34 <stickster> All right, who's chairing this par-tay? Feb 14 05:01:44 <VileGent> i thought the boss man Feb 14 05:01:57 * irooskov (n=irooskov@nat/redhat/x-19fdb1c7f81aa462) has joined #fedora-docs Feb 14 05:01:58 <jwulf_> stickster, you're the urlord... :-) Feb 14 05:02:09 <stickster> Oh lord, I figured as much.. Feb 14 05:02:30 <stickster> So my job here, as I see it, is to introduce jfearn and then have him tell us all about publican Feb 14 05:02:54 * KC0WYC (n=kc0wyc@fedora/pdpc.sustaining.BobJensen) has joined #Fedora-Docs Feb 14 05:02:58 <stickster> jfearn: everyone Feb 14 05:03:00 <stickster> everyone: jfearn Feb 14 05:03:08 <jfearn> Hi everybody! Feb 14 05:03:09 <stickster> Take it away jfearn! Feb 14 05:03:27 * pgampe (n=pgampe@nat/redhat/x-2bb662e2e8dd7b95) has joined #fedora-docs Feb 14 05:03:28 <SgtDitt> installing still Feb 14 05:03:59 <quaid> has anyone tried to build the fedora-release-notes in publican? Feb 14 05:04:10 <quaid> does it require hacking the XML or structure? Feb 14 05:04:16 * jwulf_ (n=jwulf@nat/redhat/x-00522800009fc0bb) has left #fedora-docs ("Leaving") Feb 14 05:04:22 * jwulf_ (n=jwulf@nat/redhat/x-00522800009fc0bb) has joined #fedora-docs Feb 14 05:04:23 * EvilBob just built the packages, what more do you want from me? Feb 14 05:04:58 * Acidz0r (n=tmiles@unaffiliated/acid-x/x-000000002) has joined #fedora-docs Feb 14 05:05:01 <Sparks> the world Feb 14 05:05:14 * EvilBob kicks Sparks in the shin Feb 14 05:05:19 <Sparks> :) Feb 14 05:05:41 <Sparks> Okay, I'm ready to learn... How do you start this thing? Anyone got a key? Feb 14 05:06:01 <mdious> i seem to have left the key in my other pair of pants Feb 14 05:06:10 <EvilBob> Sorry guys, just a little punchy here Feb 14 05:06:21 * dkim_ (n=daobrien@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) has joined #fedora-docs Feb 14 05:06:39 <stickster> OK guys, let's remember that the RH Content Services folks are on the clock in Brisbane, AUS. Feb 14 05:06:46 <stickster> Please make this time worth their while. Feb 14 05:06:47 <SgtDitt> create_book --name MyBook Feb 14 05:07:02 <SgtDitt> create_book --article sendmail Feb 14 05:07:03 <jfearn> well where to start... Feb 14 05:08:13 <jfearn> I'll start with some back ground on why we thought we needed publican, the rest flows from there Feb 14 05:08:38 <jfearn> there has always been a seperation between documentation and the main distro Feb 14 05:09:17 <jfearn> we wanted to be able to distribute documentation with the main distro, and this required us to have a docs build chain that integrated in to brew Feb 14 05:09:55 <jfearn> so, public is our attempt to do intergrate documentation directly in to the distro Feb 14 05:10:11 * jwulf has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) Feb 14 05:10:21 * jwulf_ is now known as jwulf Feb 14 05:10:52 <EvilBob> ? Feb 14 05:10:53 <jfearn> this imposses a bunch of requirements for how things are done, since release engineers are very demanding :) Feb 14 05:11:09 <stickster> jfearn: Will you take questions as you go? Feb 14 05:11:17 <jfearn> stickster, sure Feb 14 05:11:25 <stickster> Thanks, sorry to interrupt :-) Feb 14 05:11:25 <stickster> EvilBob: Feb 14 05:11:26 <EvilBob> How is brew related to our koji? Feb 14 05:11:29 <EvilBob> EOF Feb 14 05:12:11 * EvilBob notes that if we don't have a clear answer that is OK. Feb 14 05:12:13 <jfearn> EvilBob, I think brew is the pre-cursor to koji Feb 14 05:12:22 <EvilBob> K Feb 14 05:12:26 <SgtDitt> ??? Feb 14 05:12:34 <quaid> bottom line: Feb 14 05:12:53 <quaid> they needed a toolchain that plugged in to internal RHT build system Feb 14 05:13:11 <Tsagadai> koji and brew are very, very similar Feb 14 05:13:35 <EvilBob> So we will plug in to koji hopefully, thanks that is what I wanted. Feb 14 05:13:58 <Tsagadai> should be easy enough to do EvilBob Feb 14 05:16:09 <stickster> So publican provides build targets and L10n functions, correct? Feb 14 05:17:05 <jfearn> stickster, yes, publican supports most of the functionality of the previous internal tools and the fedora docs build system Feb 14 05:17:06 <jsmith> stickster: It sure appears to ;-) Feb 14 05:18:04 * SgtDitt raises hand Feb 14 05:18:11 <stickster> SgtDitt: Feb 14 05:18:31 <SgtDitt> so does this mean we will be publish to docbook? Feb 14 05:18:38 <SgtDitt> ;-) Feb 14 05:18:47 <SgtDitt> +1 Feb 14 05:19:10 <quaid> SgtDitt: we are publishing to docbook :) Feb 14 05:19:18 <jfearn> publican only deals with docbook and xliff atm Feb 14 05:19:30 <quaid> this is an alternate toolchain to what is in cvs.fp.org:/cvs/docs/docs-common etc. Feb 14 05:19:58 <Tsagadai> well hopefully a replacement toolchain Feb 14 05:20:03 <SgtDitt> as a new contributor, i publish to the wiki. i prefer docbook, but i think it has been discussed that the idea may be beyond some contributors Feb 14 05:20:03 <mdious> hmm.... Feb 14 05:20:24 <SgtDitt> so how would this effect new contributors, such as myself? Feb 14 05:20:39 <Sparks> and me Feb 14 05:20:43 <EvilBob> SgtDitt: Welcome to the team, you are helping me and my guys with the Install Guide... Feb 14 05:20:46 <mdious> SgtDitt: it was my understand that people edit the wiki, like you do now, then use the current toolchain to get it into docbook.... Feb 14 05:20:52 * EvilBob ducks Feb 14 05:21:20 <jfearn> publican doesn't change the current workflow, and like the current tool chain it does not interact with the wiki Feb 14 05:21:48 <VileGent> ! lets let jfearn continue his introduction and ask these questions afterwards please Feb 14 05:21:54 <VileGent> eof Feb 14 05:22:16 * daMaestro has quit ("Leaving") Feb 14 05:22:48 <jfearn> there isn't much more to say as an intro, I'be spent the last two years or so tinkering away and being harassed by writers to add features :) Feb 14 05:23:06 <stickster> ! Feb 14 05:23:17 <EvilBob> stickster: Feb 14 05:23:26 <stickster> Thanks EvilBob Feb 14 05:23:34 <jfearn> we think publican is just about ready for prime time and wanted to get it out and thouroughly tested Feb 14 05:23:35 <stickster> jfearn: So I was looking at the way you handle XML entities and was wondering Feb 14 05:24:03 <stickster> You're doing some regex to basically pull out the stuff between " " Feb 14 05:24:21 <stickster> What we did when developing our toolset over... well, whenever it was... Feb 14 05:24:25 * giarc has quit ("Leaving") Feb 14 05:24:33 <stickster> was to do an XML-ish solution with a DTD designated for entities. Feb 14 05:24:55 <stickster> This meant we could use standard tools to pull the POT from a file like "doc-entities.xml" Feb 14 05:25:15 <stickster> So it was treated by (in our case) xml2po just like any other file such as DocBook source Feb 14 05:26:44 <stickster> EOF Feb 14 05:26:46 <stickster> (sorry) Feb 14 05:26:56 <jfearn> stickster, the way we handle entities is to add the entries during the build process, but it's in flux due to translator issues with entities Feb 14 05:27:27 <stickster> Do the issues have to do with how included entities are maintained during parsing? Feb 14 05:27:30 * napramirez (n=napramir@fedora/napramirez) has joined #fedora-docs Feb 14 05:28:04 <jfearn> stickster, no, the issues have to do with not being able to set gender correctly due to lack of context in entity strings Feb 14 05:28:17 <stickster> That's what I was getting at ;-) Feb 14 05:28:32 <stickster> Sorry, my terminology is probably all scrambled. Feb 14 05:29:08 <jfearn> stickster, I'm not expert so you may be right :) Feb 14 05:29:17 <stickster> But the point being, if the content of "&FEDORA;" is translated only once by a translator, they have no opportunity to change the word form in languages where the noun takes different declensions Feb 14 05:29:40 <stickster> Like in Polish where they might use "Fedora" or "Fedory" depending on context Feb 14 05:30:05 <jfearn> stickster, yes, also issues like in some langauges the word is spelt differently depending on if it's at the start/rnd/middle of a sentence etc Feb 14 05:30:12 <stickster> Right. Feb 14 05:30:28 * gomix (n=gomix@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) has joined #fedora-docs Feb 14 05:30:30 * SG_Logger (n=notfred@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) has joined #fedora-docs Feb 14 05:30:58 <stickster> As much as we would have liked to save the translators from having to translate &SOMETHING; over and over, it was more hacky to try and preserve the entity, and a better idea to simply let it be parsed before it went to POT Feb 14 05:31:12 * gomix (n=gomix@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) has left #fedora-docs Feb 14 05:31:23 <jfearn> my conclusion was that the benefits of entities to writers is out weighed by the pain it causes translators, the war isn't won ;) Feb 14 05:32:01 <stickster> That was our conclusion too, I'll have to find when I did that commit change Feb 14 05:32:20 <stickster> It was back when Tommy was still around these parts, I'm pretty sure Feb 14 05:32:49 <stickster> So anyway, my point being, that ended up being another driver for our using a "true XML" solution for entities Feb 14 05:33:14 <stickster> So we'd actually XSLT the doc-entities.xml file into a doc-entities.ent Feb 14 05:33:22 <stickster> jfearn: Have you had time to look at our build tools? Feb 14 05:33:39 <jfearn> stickster, not in a fair while Feb 14 05:33:47 * stickster sorry to take up everyone's time on this subject Feb 14 05:34:10 <stickster> It would be worth us looking through in tandem at some convenient time for you where I can answer and ask questions Feb 14 05:34:15 <stickster> To the extent I'm able ;-D Feb 14 05:34:30 <jfearn> stickster, cool :) Feb 14 05:34:31 * stickster EOF, apologies for yapping Feb 14 05:35:21 <quaid> good reference point, though Feb 14 05:35:29 <quaid> common pains, common ideas of how to solve Feb 14 05:37:15 <stickster> Does anyone want to suggest a next action item? Feb 14 05:37:41 <EvilBob> What can we do to get this rolling Feb 14 05:37:41 <SG_Logger> ! Feb 14 05:37:45 <mdious> so...have many of you tried it? Feb 14 05:37:51 <SG_Logger> -0 Feb 14 05:38:06 <SG_Logger> ? Feb 14 05:38:09 <mdious> one + I can think of is that it is easier to install a package than checkout from cvs, so it sort of lowers the barrier to entry... Feb 14 05:38:13 <jsmith> I've tried it, and I'm liking it! Feb 14 05:38:18 * jmbuser just installed it and produced the MyBook - cool Feb 14 05:38:29 <EvilBob> jsmith: show off Feb 14 05:38:36 * jsmith just started a document explaining Publican ;-) Feb 14 05:38:44 <jfearn> I found one of the most popular side effects was being able to move from cvs to svn :) Feb 14 05:38:45 <EvilBob> jsmith: cool Feb 14 05:38:54 <stickster> jsmith: This would supplement publican-doc? Feb 14 05:38:57 <SG_Logger> can we walk through starting a doc in publican Feb 14 05:39:01 <SG_Logger> eof Feb 14 05:39:07 <jsmith> stickster: I haven't looked at publican-doc yet ;-) Feb 14 05:39:13 * samfw has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) Feb 14 05:39:13 * mmcgrath has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) Feb 14 05:39:13 * jsmith has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) Feb 14 05:39:13 * jacques-work has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) Feb 14 05:39:22 * mmcgrath (n=mmcgrath@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) has joined #fedora-docs Feb 14 05:39:30 * jacques-work (n=jacques@xxxxxxxxxxxxx) has joined #fedora-docs Feb 14 05:39:37 * jsmith (n=nnjsmith@xxxxxxxxxxxx) has joined #fedora-docs Feb 14 05:39:47 <mdious> SG_Logger: instructions for creating a book Feb 14 05:39:47 <mdious> https://fedorahosted.org/publican#sect-Publican-Using_the_publican_package-Creating_a_Book Feb 14 05:39:59 <quaid> mdious: in answer, I just got it installed and built the example in the skeleton Feb 14 05:40:17 <mdious> basically you run create_book --name Book_Name and add other options, which make it so you don't have to edit the makefile... Feb 14 05:40:58 <mdious> for example, instead of editing the makefile with "brand = blah", you can run "create_book --name Book_Name --brand Fedora... Feb 14 05:41:32 <mdious> * --brand fedora Feb 14 05:42:01 <jsmith> Yeah, lower case "fedora" Feb 14 05:42:18 * quaid actually couldn't build the example that came from create_book Feb 14 05:42:21 <stickster> O noez, I eated your branding! Feb 14 05:42:30 <mdious> quaid: what error did you get? Feb 14 05:42:43 <quaid> warning: failed to load external entity "tmp/en-US/xml/Feedback.xml" Feb 14 05:42:59 * juhp has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) Feb 14 05:42:59 * GuGu has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) Feb 14 05:42:59 * ricky has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) Feb 14 05:42:59 * poelcat has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) Feb 14 05:42:59 * mether has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) Feb 14 05:42:59 * davido has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) Feb 14 05:42:59 * herlo has quit (kubrick.freenode.net irc.freenode.net) Feb 14 05:43:04 <mdious> quaid: I think that is okay to ignore Feb 14 05:43:06 <SgtDitt> Brand fedora does not contain a Book_Template! at /usr/bin/create_book line 61 Feb 14 05:43:31 <mdious> feedback.xml is something such as "if you find a bug in <x>, please submit a bug against product <x>, component <book_name> Feb 14 05:43:38 <quaid> mdious: but it hangs and doesn't end, nor is there any HTML output Feb 14 05:43:39 <quaid> from 'make html-single' Feb 14 05:43:39 * EvilBob notes that the packages he built were untested you are using them at your own risk! Feb 14 05:43:39 <stickster> Make sure you've also installed the publican-fedora package Feb 14 05:43:48 <jfearn> quaid, that warning is due to the way that Fallback falls back :) Feb 14 05:43:54 <mdious> and also the publican package... Feb 14 05:43:57 <quaid> I was wondering about that Feb 14 05:43:58 * poelcat (n=slick@fedora/poelcat) has joined #fedora-docs Feb 14 05:43:58 * ricky (n=ricky@fedora/ricky) has joined #fedora-docs Feb 14 05:43:58 * GuGu (n=gugu@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx) has joined #fedora-docs Feb 14 05:44:07 * quaid has publican-fedora installed but wondered if a style package was required Feb 14 05:44:13 * samfw (n=samfw@nat/redhat/session) has joined #fedora-docs Feb 14 05:44:20 <stickster> hm Feb 14 05:44:20 <jfearn> it will look for a local Fallback.xml and if it doesn't find it it falls back to the brand Fallback.xml Feb 14 05:44:23 * Tombo-linux (n=mirggi@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) has joined #fedora-docs Feb 14 05:44:25 <mdious> quaid: publica-fedora is the style package, do you have publican installed as well? Feb 14 05:44:31 * herlo (n=clints@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) has joined #fedora-docs Feb 14 05:44:32 <jfearn> Feedback.xml Feb 14 05:44:38 * jfearn sighs Feb 14 05:44:43 <quaid> mdious: yes Feb 14 05:44:47 <jsmith> herlo: You're missing a good intro to Publican Feb 14 05:45:52 * quaid tries again with --bran Feb 14 05:45:58 * VileGent has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)) Feb 14 05:45:59 <quaid> --brand Feb 14 05:46:14 <jwulf> extra dietary fiber Feb 14 05:46:24 <jwulf> to push out your packages Feb 14 05:46:31 <stickster> Super Colon Blow! Feb 14 05:46:31 <jfearn> eew Feb 14 05:46:41 <quaid> jfearn: is it just that Feedback.xml is not included in any of the packages? Or ..? Feb 14 05:46:41 * mether (n=ask@fedora/mether) has joined #fedora-docs Feb 14 05:46:43 <jwulf> ok, who has the t-shirt? Feb 14 05:46:44 <EvilBob> lol Feb 14 05:46:45 <jwulf> - Feb 14 05:46:47 <jwulf> :-) Feb 14 05:47:04 * mether has quit (Connection timed out) Feb 14 05:47:42 <Tsagadai> quaid you can choose which files to include or not include from your books mail file "book-title".xml Feb 14 05:47:46 <jfearn> quaid, it's just the way docbook handles fallbacks for xi:include, it can't find the first, so it issues a warning, then it finds the fallback and continues on Feb 14 05:48:19 <jfearn> this way writers can use a brand and change the Feedbakc file without creating a new brand Feb 14 05:48:21 <quaid> ah, so Feb 14 05:48:35 <SgtDitt> sweet! works great. lasts long time Feb 14 05:48:52 * davido (n=daobrien@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) has joined #fedora-docs Feb 14 05:49:07 -dmwaters- {global notice} Good day all, I apologize for the netsplits, we had some maintenence due on a couple servers but it's over now. thank you for your patience, and thank you for using freenode! Feb 14 05:49:24 <jfearn> mmm stormy waters Feb 14 05:50:30 * stickster hears faint tapping of keys across the land Feb 14 05:50:51 <EvilBob> stickster: no that is my kid running in the house Feb 14 05:50:53 <jsmith> stickster: I'm typing loud enough that you can probably hear me Feb 14 05:51:05 <jsmith> stickster: (that is, if you can hear it above the howling wind outside) Feb 14 05:51:08 <stickster> So has everyone seen publican in action, now? Feb 14 05:51:24 * quaid is having l'issues still Feb 14 05:51:45 <jmbuser> stickster:+1 Feb 14 05:52:37 * stickster concerned about quaid's experience Feb 14 05:53:05 <quaid> well, I tried making a Feedback.xml, copied Chapter.xml over and make the IDs unique Feb 14 05:53:15 * tombolinux has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.80 [Firefox 2.0.0.10/0000000000]") Feb 14 05:53:35 <EvilBob> stickster: it is quaid... it could be anything... Feb 14 05:53:36 <quaid> anyway, if I'm the only one Feb 14 05:53:56 <mdious> quaid: do you get the same feedback warning? Feb 14 05:54:03 <quaid> don't let me hold it up; it's either pebcak or something about the packages I have installed Feb 14 05:54:06 <quaid> mdious: nope Feb 14 05:54:18 <quaid> it's getting better Feb 14 05:54:18 <mdious> quaid: what error do you get? Feb 14 05:54:19 <SgtDitt> mine works now. just read the email from jmbabich Feb 14 05:54:53 <mdious> quaid: if you created a feedback.xml, make sure you updated the en-US/Book_Name.xml file, so that it includes it... Feb 14 05:54:53 * noriko has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) Feb 14 05:55:09 <quaid> mdious: that would be it Feb 14 05:55:19 <jfearn> quaid, maybe I need to take a trip over there and show you how it works :) Feb 14 05:55:26 * jfearn pokes pgampe Feb 14 05:55:42 <quaid> jfearn: weather is nice in Orlando right now, you are welcome to come Feb 14 05:55:54 <quaid> but I think all the java developers might make you break out in hives Feb 14 05:56:03 * noriko (n=noriko@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx) has joined #fedora-docs Feb 14 05:56:11 * jfearn loves the jboss brothers Feb 14 05:56:14 * EvilBob notes Java is Evil Feb 14 05:56:25 <jsmith> EvilBob: Yeah, but DocBook more than makes up for it ;-) Feb 14 05:56:27 <quaid> mdious: since Preface.xml is calling Feedback.xml, why add it to Book_Info.xml? Feb 14 05:56:40 <quaid> jfearn: it's good stuff here, good stuff Feb 14 05:56:53 <mdious> quaid: so you can add a preface? Feb 14 05:57:27 * stickster lost Feb 14 05:57:29 <jsmith> mdious: Of course! Feb 14 05:57:42 * daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) has joined #fedora-docs Feb 14 05:57:46 <SG_Logger> stickster, +1 Feb 14 05:58:00 <mdious> SG_Logger, stickster, what are you lost about? Feb 14 05:58:16 <quaid> well, again, if it's just me, feel free to continue ahead Feb 14 05:58:16 <stickster> quaid's question about Book_Info.xml Feb 14 05:58:16 <quaid> I'll eventually catch up Feb 14 05:58:18 <stickster> Oh Feb 14 05:58:19 <stickster> nm, read buffer. self.slap() Feb 14 05:58:37 <SG_Logger> all the above but in time i am sure i will pick it up Feb 14 05:59:05 <SgtDitt> so... Feb 14 05:59:12 <EvilBob> SG_Logger: don't worry in the coming months you will be up to speed Feb 14 05:59:12 <SgtDitt> iif i may] Feb 14 05:59:20 <mdious> stickster: Book_Info has information about the book, such as product numbers, issue numbers etc (these are used when building an rpm), Book_Name.xml is just a file with xi includes to include your chapter files Feb 14 05:59:21 <SG_Logger> go ahead Feb 14 05:59:25 * andyfitz- (n=AndyFitz@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) has joined #fedora-docs Feb 14 06:00:10 <SgtDitt> the command "create_book --name MyBook --brand fedora" will create a template, and workinng docbook file. Feb 14 06:00:32 <mdious> SgtDitt: correct. Feb 14 06:00:43 <SgtDitt> then you use any editor to replace the templae information with your proper title...author... Feb 14 06:00:46 <mdious> using --brand fedora updates the Makefile with "brand = fedora" Feb 14 06:00:55 <SgtDitt> to make an article... Feb 14 06:01:01 <mdious> SgtDitt: yes, you can use the Chapter.xml file as a template... Feb 14 06:01:15 <SG_Logger> in the subfolder MyBook of the current folder Feb 14 06:01:34 <SgtDitt> do the same but "create_book --article --name MyArticle --brand fedora Feb 14 06:01:43 <mdious> that might work...:P Feb 14 06:01:45 <mdious> it used to... Feb 14 06:01:55 <SgtDitt> it does. i tried it Feb 14 06:01:58 <stickster> yup Feb 14 06:01:58 <mdious> oh, I think it was set that was taken out Feb 14 06:02:08 <SgtDitt> so my question is.... Feb 14 06:02:15 <SgtDitt> sorry Feb 14 06:02:44 <SgtDitt> do we paste xml to wiki for editing? Feb 14 06:02:51 * SgtDitt hiding from darts Feb 14 06:02:52 <stickster> SgtDitt: Nope Feb 14 06:02:57 <stickster> SgtDitt: But a valiant try Feb 14 06:03:10 <mdious> SgtDitt: maybe ask jfearn for a make-wiki target :) Feb 14 06:03:10 <stickster> SgtDitt: You can start on the wiki and move to Docbook Feb 14 06:03:17 <stickster> mdious: XXX Feb 14 06:03:21 <SgtDitt> NO! Feb 14 06:03:30 <stickster> The problem with going to the wiki is you lose lots of metadata. Feb 14 06:03:39 <SgtDitt> i want to use docbook, just trying to see how the 2 tie together Feb 14 06:03:41 <Tsagadai> or we could skip the wiki step and use docbook xml... Feb 14 06:03:45 <mdious> have you ever gone from xml to the wiki? I thought it was the other way around... Feb 14 06:03:46 <stickster> The wiki doesn't know the difference between <computeroutput>, <package>, and <command> for example. Feb 14 06:03:58 <SgtDitt> bad example Feb 14 06:04:02 <stickster> The wiki only knows (e.g.) {{{hi there}}} Feb 14 06:04:13 <quaid> why wiki? Feb 14 06:04:14 <stickster> So you can start on the wiki, then bring it *into* DocBook, and then stay there Feb 14 06:04:22 <quaid> I can say why in a few lines, if we want to digress Feb 14 06:04:30 <jsmith> jfearn: Quick question... what about paper sizes for PDF output? How do I get it to do letter instead of A4? Feb 14 06:05:07 <SgtDitt> from reading the web site, it says edit in wiki so others can contribute. but i'm cool with just docbook and cvs Feb 14 06:05:30 <stickster> Wiki is great for getting the most people able to help write at one time. Feb 14 06:05:32 <jfearn> jsmith, ohh we never had to deal with that, so we'd have to add that functionality Feb 14 06:05:47 <quaid> SgtDitt: you can, it's just that the numbers of contributors that use the wiki and will use the wiki are 10x or more what we can get in XML Feb 14 06:05:58 <SgtDitt> but you end up with 2 doc branches. wiki and docbook Feb 14 06:05:58 <jsmith> jfearn: /etc/papersize is a good place to start ;-) Feb 14 06:06:06 <quaid> it's a community docs drafting space Feb 14 06:06:08 <SgtDitt> then you have to manually merge info Feb 14 06:06:19 <jsmith> Yes Feb 14 06:06:23 <quaid> hmm, sort of Feb 14 06:06:26 <jfearn> jsmith, I was told letter is dead ;) Feb 14 06:06:27 <quaid> only for the release notes Feb 14 06:06:27 <Tsagadai> yes but the fact remains that in it's present form the wiki is not accessible enough for just anyone to contribute Feb 14 06:06:38 <quaid> Docs/Beats is the "rawhide" Feb 14 06:06:43 * Tsagadai points at hoops that need jumping before access Feb 14 06:06:51 <jsmith> jfearn: Funny... I was told the same about A4 ;-) Feb 14 06:06:57 <stickster> jfearn: There's params available for that in the docbook xsl too; Feb 14 06:06:59 <quaid> but a guide like the Docs/Drafts/AdministrationGuide is converted to XML and maintained in that form Feb 14 06:07:06 <quaid> the next version might come from the wiki Feb 14 06:07:10 <stickster> For e.g. => FO Feb 14 06:07:31 <jfearn> stickster, yeah, I'd just add a parameter to te Makefile for people to override the all conquering A4 ;) Feb 14 06:07:53 <stickster> jfearn: This was something that came up on fedora-devel recently too. Feb 14 06:07:58 <SgtDitt> i like ansi f at my age Feb 14 06:08:12 <jsmith> jfearn: One other minor note... the documentation.png file still calls it "Documentation-devel" instead of "Publican" Feb 14 06:08:16 <stickster> That anaconda ought to try to do the right thing about setting paper size depending on locale Feb 14 06:08:42 <quaid> Tsagadai: all of those improvements for the wiki access are in the works; short delivery time (March) for most of the important stuff Feb 14 06:08:53 <jfearn> jsmith, yeah, I figured it would end up being fedora docs team or something Feb 14 06:09:04 <stickster> jfearn: Maybe you can get the Fedora art team to design a cool Publican logo Feb 14 06:09:05 <Tsagadai> including anonymous access I hope Feb 14 06:09:24 <stickster> I want it to look just like the fat guy who reads the scrolls in HBO's "Rome" series Feb 14 06:09:25 <jsmith> jfearn: Yeah, probably so for the Fedora brand... Feb 14 06:09:53 <Tsagadai> stickster, that's Ian McNiece :) Feb 14 06:09:59 <stickster> Right Feb 14 06:09:59 <jfearn> stickster, lolz, a fat guy with a beer! Feb 14 06:10:00 <stickster> I love him. Feb 14 06:10:05 <Tsagadai> so do i Feb 14 06:10:06 <andyfitz-> stickster, now that we're settled on Publican i'm sure we can sort something out :) Feb 14 06:10:12 <stickster> I clipped a bunch of his lines for the fortune on my blog. Feb 14 06:10:13 * SgtDitt is now known as mdittmeier Feb 14 06:11:06 * stickster is Mr. Pot saying "Mr. Kettle, you're black" Feb 14 06:12:05 <stickster> So, I don't want to break up the happy party, because we're very happy to see RH Docs and Content Services guys here Feb 14 06:12:11 <stickster> Should we figure out a next step? Feb 14 06:12:18 <stickster> Or save that until later? Feb 14 06:12:41 <jsmith> stickster: Would it be worth me pushing a doc through Publican as a test? Something like the crypto guide? Feb 14 06:13:03 <stickster> jsmith: Yes, that would be a great idea -- it's fairly short right now. Feb 14 06:13:07 <mdious> jsmith: that should work, but you would have to update the book_name.xml to include all the separate files Feb 14 06:13:09 <Tsagadai> go for it jsmith Feb 14 06:13:17 <stickster> jsmith: So that would be wiki --> DocBook --> publican --> {targets...} Feb 14 06:13:17 <jsmith> mdious: That's not a problem Feb 14 06:13:19 <stickster> right? Feb 14 06:13:24 <mdious> i never understood how to include more than one file using the fedora toolchain...do edit the makefile with all of them, or just use xi includes? Feb 14 06:13:26 <Sparks> The crypto guide has a little way to go Feb 14 06:13:32 <jsmith> stickster: Yeah, just like the current toolchain Feb 14 06:13:40 <stickster> mdious: xi:include is the way to go Feb 14 06:13:48 <jsmith> Sparks: Sure, but this is just a test... Feb 14 06:13:51 <stickster> mdious: Refer to release-notes or installation-guide as example Feb 14 06:14:00 <stickster> jsmith: That would be great Feb 14 06:14:01 <jsmith> Or I could take the Software Management w/ Yum piece Feb 14 06:14:02 <mdious> cool, so in the fedora toolchain, the makefile references one file (which i guess, is the same as the book_info in publican), and...? Feb 14 06:14:06 <Sparks> jsmith: Yeah... Should give you a comparison to the SMG Feb 14 06:14:10 <stickster> jsmith: You should blog your experience Feb 14 06:14:11 <mdious> stickster: thanks, I have the install-guide here Feb 14 06:14:32 <quaid> SMG +1 for testing Feb 14 06:14:37 <jsmith> stickster: Uh, yeah.... I really should... and then convince someone to make me a hackergotchi, and get syndicated and all Feb 14 06:14:48 <jsmith> stickster: You really are gonna put me to work, aren't you ;-) Feb 14 06:14:49 <stickster> I'll do the hackergotchi for you if you send me a picture you like Feb 14 06:14:54 <Sparks> not sure how much jsmith already had done with the SMG conversion Feb 14 06:15:02 <jsmith> Sparks: About 90% or so Feb 14 06:15:13 <Sparks> jsmith: You mean you aren't done yet? Feb 14 06:15:16 <stickster> doh! Feb 14 06:15:17 <jsmith> Sparks: It's mostly done, other than the editing Feb 14 06:15:22 <stickster> oh, snap! Feb 14 06:15:25 <Sparks> jsmith: :) Feb 14 06:15:27 <quaid> *cough*slacker*cought* Feb 14 06:15:44 <jsmith> Hey, the hard part is done... it just needs a few eyeballs to wordsmith it Feb 14 06:15:58 * jsmith may even have a stray edit or two still on his laptop Feb 14 06:16:00 <Tsagadai> send me a link jsmith Feb 14 06:17:39 <stickster> OK, jfearn, how are you with outcome here? Feb 14 06:18:17 <jfearn> stickster, I'm pretty happy, people seem to have the basics and will be able to play and ask questions :) Feb 14 06:18:23 <quaid> I'd love something committed to /cvs/docs/ that can build with this Feb 14 06:18:38 <quaid> let's get the s-m-g in there and do a version that builds with publican too Feb 14 06:19:07 <jfearn> quaid, can it wait a week? I might be able to get the internationalization guide for you Feb 14 06:19:21 <jsmith> I'll go ahead and get started with it tomorrow Feb 14 06:19:23 <quaid> Sparks, jsmith : I have to hunt-n-nag dkl about the bugzilla name change for that Feb 14 06:19:42 <quaid> jfearn: let's let jsmith try it out and see how far he gets Feb 14 06:19:49 <Sparks> quaid: Okay. Feb 14 06:19:52 <jfearn> cool Feb 14 06:20:18 * Sparks yawns Feb 14 06:20:36 * quaid sends up flares Feb 14 06:20:47 <quaid> Quaid .. needs .. food .. badly .. Feb 14 06:20:54 <jsmith> OK, I'll get started in the morning Feb 14 06:20:55 <Sparks> quaid: I have pie. Feb 14 06:21:00 <quaid> mmm pie Feb 14 06:21:03 * jsmith throws quaid a twinkie Feb 14 06:21:07 <Sparks> quaid: Cherry pie Feb 14 06:21:12 <Sparks> quaid: Made it myself Feb 14 06:21:21 <quaid> jsmith: bug here and/or the list if you get stuck Feb 14 06:21:27 <quaid> Sparks: you far from Orlando? Feb 14 06:21:43 <jsmith> quaid: You know I will ;-) Feb 14 06:21:44 <Sparks> quaid: Southeastern Virginia Feb 14 06:21:45 <mdious> yeah, if you get any errors just post to the list... Feb 14 06:21:52 <Sparks> quaid: far is so relative Feb 14 06:23:00 <quaid> true Feb 14 06:23:13 <quaid> however there must be something good here and the carbon footprint on it has already been burned ... Feb 14 06:23:13 <mdittmeier> ha! we start flying from Oldano to VA in march if you can wait Feb 14 06:23:38 <mdittmeier> s/Olando/Orland Feb 14 06:23:46 * quaid rips his bastardized publican packages out and installs again Feb 14 06:24:08 <SG_Logger> Sparks, so you are in my neck of the woods Feb 14 06:24:12 <Sparks> mdittmeier: Flying into what airport in VA? Feb 14 06:24:15 <quaid> I saw it all work on a different host, so it's just me :) Feb 14 06:24:19 * jsmith is in VA too! Feb 14 06:24:37 <Sparks> quaid: It's always just you Feb 14 06:24:56 <Sparks> SG_Logger: Where are you? Feb 14 06:25:04 <SG_Logger> blacksburg Feb 14 06:25:18 <Sparks> Ahhh... Newport News Feb 14 06:25:28 <quaid> <= King of Pebcak Feb 14 06:25:29 <SG_Logger> opps you said SE Feb 14 06:25:35 <mdittmeier> Richmond airport Feb 14 06:25:38 <SG_Logger> i thought SW Feb 14 06:25:49 <mdittmeier> Spirit Feb 14 06:26:05 * mdious glares at red hat campers Feb 14 06:26:13 <Sparks> mdittmeier: okay... about an hour away. Come on down to the Newport News-Williamsburg International Airport... :) Feb 14 06:26:17 * jfearn pokes davido Feb 14 06:26:32 <davido> jfearn, what? Feb 14 06:26:45 <Tsagadai> boom! headshot Feb 14 06:26:46 <davido> I'm innocent Feb 14 06:26:53 <jfearn> daMaestro, just making sure you where OK, at your age to much silense can scare poeple Feb 14 06:27:02 <jfearn> doh Feb 14 06:27:05 <Sparks> Okay, I'm headed to bed. Thanks for the startup on Publican! Feb 14 06:27:17 <jmbuser> Great intro! Feb 14 06:27:33 <jsmith> Thanks jfearn... I'm super excited Feb 14 06:27:37 <mdittmeier> yes, nice work Feb 14 06:27:38 <davido> jfearn, I'm just making sure you don't tell any lies or blame us writers for anything Feb 14 06:27:41 <mdittmeier> +1 Feb 14 06:28:13 <jfearn> thank for coming, I'm on the fedora docs list, so if you have any questions that's the place to ask Feb 14 06:28:18 * pgampe (n=pgampe@nat/redhat/x-2bb662e2e8dd7b95) has left #fedora-docs ("Kopete 0.12.7 : http://kopete.kde.org";) Feb 14 06:28:18 * daMaestro makes some random cow noise Feb 14 06:28:23 <SG_Logger> jfearn, pretabenterkeyitis Feb 14 06:28:32 <SG_Logger> ? Feb 14 06:29:07 <jfearn> SG_Logger, guilty as charged Feb 14 06:30:36 * mdious has quit ("Leaving.") Feb 14 06:31:04 <stickster> jsmith: Still there? Feb 14 06:31:11 <jsmith> stickster: Yup Feb 14 06:31:16 <jsmith> stickster: But not for long Feb 14 06:31:59 <jwulf> pants Feb 14 06:32:35 <stickster> It's in mah pants! Feb 14 06:32:40 * EvilBob had to buy pants for FUDcon... Feb 14 06:32:45 * stickster too Feb 14 06:33:19 <EvilBob> I wear Jeans or Shorts most of the time when I am out of the house Feb 14 06:33:39 <EvilBob> when I am in the office yall are lucky we don't do video chat Feb 14 06:33:51 <SG_Logger> and how Feb 14 06:34:11 <quaid> glezos, he saw where I work most of the time Feb 14 06:34:28 <quaid> one hand on the kettle or sauce pan, one on the keyboard Feb 14 06:34:35 <jmbuser> EvilBob: Number one reason videophones never became popular Feb 14 06:34:35 <EvilBob> quaid: clothing optional beach? Feb 14 06:34:39 <stickster> cookin' wif FOSS, yo! Feb 14 06:34:40 <quaid> so I guess it's the little apron that would be embarassing Feb 14 06:35:03 <SG_Logger> at work wears cargo pants at home sweats Feb 14 06:35:16 <mdittmeier> lol, come on down here to Miami! Feb 14 06:35:31 <mdittmeier> they were cool stuff (nothing) Feb 14 06:37:27 * mdious (n=mmcallis@nat/redhat/x-e61566572306d77d) has joined #fedora-docs Feb 14 06:38:42 <stickster> All right, I had a crap day and I'm gonna call it one now. Feb 14 06:38:51 <jfearn> one last thing Feb 14 06:39:25 <jfearn> I have the packages branched for F-*, El-4 and EL-5, is it OK for me to try and get those packages pushed? Feb 14 06:39:26 <BobJensen> stickster: Good Night Boss Feb 14 06:39:34 <jfearn> f-8 Feb 14 06:39:47 <BobJensen> jfearn: they built fine here Feb 14 06:40:06 <jmbuser> stickster: adios, amigo Feb 14 06:40:07 <stickster> Go for it! Feb 14 06:40:14 * jsmith is running it on F8 on both PPC and i386 Feb 14 06:40:17 <stickster> jfearn: Thanks very much for your time today Feb 14 06:40:23 <jmbuser> +1 Feb 14 06:40:30 <jfearn> probably some missing deps from the epel repos, but F-8 should be fine Feb 14 06:40:55 <BobJensen> jfearn: I have only run publican-fedora and publican through my shredder fir i386 and x86_64 Feb 14 06:41:05 <quaid> jfearn: so they'll be in EPEL? rockin' Feb 14 06:41:17 * stickster looks forward to more partnership with RH Docs Feb 14 06:41:24 <jsmith> +1 Feb 14 06:41:25 <jfearn> quaid, yeah, I'll probably have to get some other packages branched for epel though Feb 14 06:41:28 <stickster> g'night all Feb 14 06:41:34 <jsmith> stickster: Have a good night! Feb 14 06:41:35 <quaid> ah, oy Feb 14 06:41:38 <quaid> joy Feb 14 06:41:42 <quaid> night Paul Feb 14 06:41:46 * stickster is now known as stickster_afk Feb 14 06:41:49 <jmbuser> good morning, good afternoon and good night Feb 14 06:43:12 <jfearn> I'm going to have lunch, I'll be back on later if anyone has any questions Feb 14 06:43:45 * jfearn has quit ("Hasta luego muchachos") Feb 14 06:43:50 * jsmith is now known as jsmith-zzz Feb 14 06:44:21 * jmbuser has a log which he will attempt to post -- fedora-docs-list mailing list fedora-docs-list@xxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-docs-list
