Michael Schwendt wrote:
All I can say is that with Ubuntu you can pick vendor drivers and Sun
Java 1.5 from the software management tool and you almost never have to
worry about conflicts among packages from the different repositories.
"Almost never"? How many external repositories have you tried?
That's the real difference. Ubuntu does not have the same exclusionary
policy so you don't have to track down packages from a million
uncoordinated places.
> Dependency
problems and inter-repository issues are not specific to Fedora or RPM.
Experimental upgrades/replacements/alternatives, orphans, and poorly
maintained packages do exist for other dists, too, not just in 3rd
party repos.
Of course that can happen - Fedora just makes it impossible not to happen.
Just talk to open-minded (!) Debian/Ubuntu followers.
I just have my own experience - on my laptop Ubuntu installs the right
video and wireless driver and lets me pick Sun java from the GUI
software tool. Fedora doesn't.
And what has this to do with your earlier claim anyway? (the "horribly
fractured 3rd party situation")
Again - that's just my experience. When I've installed fedora, I've had
to track down the components myself and had them break regularly during
updates.
There simply is not enough man-power
to spend additional time on coordinating between 3rd party packagers.
That's something that potential users have to take into account when
choosing the distro they are going run.
"Potential users" don't and can't know about such things. It's nothing
that plays a role in dist advertising yet. 3rd party repos are
_independent_.
You are seriously underestimating users if you don't think they are
capable of trying a few distros and tossing the ones that break. Fedora
forces the replacement issue regularly anyway with its fast expiration
cycle.
Which make the effort that Ubuntu (with the help of the underlying
debian packages) makes particularly outstanding.
Is a distribution war your only interest? I don't share your view.
So, no comment on packaging quality or repo quality here.
No, it is actually a fairly complicated issue. Fedora serves a purpose,
but I think it would be even better served if it were more usable on
several fronts. One is the upgrade cycle per the start of this thread,
but equally critical is the effect of the changes on other software the
user needs to run and whether or not the user trusts the distro enough
to actually run things that will test it well.
"the help of the underlying debian packages" is a funny phrase, btw.
How so? Would the accomplishments of Ubuntu be possible if they
isolated themselves from other's work instead of using it to best
advantage? What's funny to me is that packagers work to maintain
incompatible systems and keep changing them yet say there is a lack of
time to keep all their incompatible repository versions coordinated.
The point of using any
distribution instead of rolling your own linux from scratch is that
others theoretically have worked together to make sure that everything
is compatible.
And the context of this sentence is what?
Simply that users will choose the distro that works. If you want to keep
rolling out new stuff and have someone test it, it has to at least
mostly work together most of the time.
If a distro doesn't arrange for this kind of cooperation
it can't provide what users need and expect.
Apples and oranges. A discussion thread on this level only scratches
the surface. It won't be fruitful at all. Not enough substance.
Agreed, but dismissing the ways Ubuntu provides a better user experience
isn't all that useful either.
--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell@xxxxxxxxx
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