Re: Summary of the 2008-04-08 Packaging Committee meeting

[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]

 



Nicolas Mailhot wrote:
Le mardi 13 mai 2008 à 08:50 -0700, Toshio Kuratomi a écrit :
Nicolas Mailhot wrote:

Not really. The argument seems to be that there's not enough java packagers to fill both JPackage and Fedora with rpms. But this is no different than anyone else who says, there's only a few of us who care about packaging OCaml programs/Lisp programs/vim plugins and there's too many useful pieces of software written in that language that users want for us to handle. Make accomodations for us so that users can decide to make use of this third party repository where upstream/other distros can help us with the packaging effort.

Well, organise yourself and prove this third-party repository value. JPP
has nothing to prove. It antedates Fedora.

Either we decide that JPackage is special because it has guidelines for packaging that we agree with, our java packagers mostly work in that repository anyway, (to re-emphasise what you've said) "we reuse extensively the work done [in the JPackage repository]",

and we have a presence there that allows us to make changes to JPackage guidelines and policies when there is a need

This has always been the case. FLOSS project, contributors decide, some
Red Hat/Fedora people are major JPackage contributors. The problem is
not there is no presence, or that this presence is ignored, but that
this presence is not used at all by the Fedora instances.

You'd be hard-pressed to find one message on this subject by the people
that want to force this change on the public jpackage list where most of
the people needing convincing are. You do have a few messages by Red Hat
people who are hard pressed to defend a change they didn't propose or
adhere with.

or we stop saying that it should be a goal that our users can switch out the Fedora stack with the JPackage stack on any arbitrary update.

We can stop saying that that won't magically create alternative packages
Fedora side.

What we have now makes no sense:

1) JPackage derived packages are supposed to be switchable with Fedora packages on a per package basis (per the original justifications for the .jpp exception)

2) JPackage derived packages are supposed to be switchable with Fedora packages on a whole stack basis (per ReasonsForKeepingJPP).

3) We could have packages in Fedora that have a counterpart in JPackage but are not derived from the JPackage package with no rhyme or reason beyond whether the packager was active in JPackage when they made the submission. This will cause problems for people attempting to mix JPackage and Fedora stacks as per #1.

Sure it's a danger but is it worse than having to reinvent the wheel
twice as a complete fork and separation would lead to? (assuming both
branches do not deperish for lack of contributors)

4) JPackage Guidelines only have a few points of divergence with the Fedora Guidelines and the stated goal of our java packagers is to make those divergences disappear.

5) The attitude that our users can find a package in JPackage if it's not in Fedora is detrimental to us. Where ever possible, we don't want user's to have to *find* packages, we want them to be able to yum install the package out of the box.

Note it has never been the goal to "hoard" packages jpp-side. They can
flow Fedora-way as long as Fedora changes are pushed back where
non-Fedora packagers may use them and the two repositories do not
painfully diverge.


Yep. And I'm just saying that divergence is inevitable (as seen by the tomcat package) if we keep going forward in the way we are now. We need to either get closer to JPackage or farther away. We have a choice right now of which way to go. We should think about which direction makes the most sense and form policy that commits us to that.

-Toshio "Grape in the middle of the road get squashed" Kuratomi

--
fedora-devel-list mailing list
fedora-devel-list@xxxxxxxxxx
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list

[Date Prev][Date Next][Thread Prev][Thread Next][Date Index][Thread Index]
[Index of Archives]     [Fedora Announce]     [Fedora Kernel]     [Fedora Testing]     [Fedora Formulas]     [Fedora PHP Devel]     [Kernel Development]     [Fedora Legacy]     [Fedora Maintainers]     [Fedora Desktop]     [PAM]     [Red Hat Development]     [Gimp]     [Yosemite News]
  Powered by Linux