Hi all, recently there were discussions on this list (and elsewhere) which stood out by the sheer lack of social graces some of us occasionally seem to employ when dealing with others. This wasn't a single, isolated, incidence but happened every now and again in the past, so here are, in the hope that we can improve this situation (and in order of what I deem decreasing significance), some things which deserve some fixing: 1. Calling people names, getting personal: This can only serve to poison the atmosphere. If you can't get your point across without calling somebody the "biggest troll under the sun", then it's probably not much of a point to begin with. Besides that, nothing I've seen here comes near the level of trolling I've seen elsewhere[2]. It's a good idea to keep discussions objective. This brings me to... 2. Needless exaggeration, hyperbole: It may be okay to call a program the "biggest piece of crap I've ever seen" in private, if you know the person well and can be sure they don't take it personally. Incidentally, most people you're dealing with around here are more likely strangers than not, so this exception won't apply very often. It's a good idea to see (and present) things a little more differentiated, this can only bolster your credibility. 3. Confusing opinion and truth: Not everything that annoys you is also an error, some things are matters of preference and in these cases usually the maintainer's preference trumps others ("who does wins"). That won't change very soon, so better not be grumpy about it. Likewise, it's good when maintainers care for those who use things differently than they (or the personae they envisioned) do -- you don't have to cater for every obscure use case, but acknowledging that some people do things differently and that their ways are equally valid helps much. Getting "I don't have the time to do that, but I'm open for patches if done properly" as an answer to a request leaves someone much more options than "You're not our target audience". Somewhat related: 4. Lack of patience and perspective: Sometimes things are broken, but awfully hard to fix correctly. Sometimes there are more pressing things to do first before the problem you have can be fixed. Sometimes a patch which helps you breaks stuff for others. That some things take their time doesn't mean that developers don't care about your problems. Ironically, developers can experience the same when having problems with packages maintained by others. Being rude to people usually won't increase the priority of your issues. Coming up with a patch (or bribing someone else to do so) might be a good first step here. I'm aware of the "Tact Filter Theory"[2] but it seems to me that some people (assuming that they read the piece) just think "That's exactly how it is." instead of adding "... and this is how I could improve myself in dealing with others." to the thought, i.e. they haven't read (or do ignore) the last paragraph. I'd like to summarize this by quoting Deb Richardson[3]: "Be polite. Be helpful. You're bright people. Extrapolate." Thanks, Nils (covering for Miss Manners for today) [1]: e.g. the discussions in the Heise Newsticker (sorry folks, this is not available in English): http://www.heise.de/newsticker [2]: http://www.mit.edu/~jcb/tact.html [3]: http://www.dria.org -- Nils Philippsen / Red Hat / nphilipp@xxxxxxxxxx "Those who would give up Essential Liberty to purchase a little Temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- B. Franklin, 1759 PGP fingerprint: C4A8 9474 5C4C ADE3 2B8F 656D 47D8 9B65 6951 3011 -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@xxxxxxxxxx https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list