On Wed, Jan 22, 2025 at 01:27:09PM +0100, Fabio Valentini wrote: > On Wed, Jan 22, 2025 at 10:52 AM Daniel P. Berrangé <berrange@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > An increasingly large part of the ecosystem is working and deploying > > a way that Fedora (and derivative distros) are relegated to only > > delivering what's illustrated as Ring 1. This is especially the case > > in the CoreOS/SilverBlue spins, but we see it in traditional installs > > too which only install enough of Fedora to bootstrap the outside > > world. Meanwhile ring 2 is the space filled by either language specific > > tools (pip, cargo, rubygems, etc), and some docker container images, > > while ring 3 is the space filled by Flatpaks and further docker > > container images. Fedora meanwhile continues trying to package and > > deliver everything the same way as we did for decades, as if this > > shift were not happening. > > This kind of misses the point that Fedora packages do provide (in my > opinion) quite a lot of value on top of most language-specific package > package managers. > > pip is a little bit more advanced than other tools here, but `go > install` and `cargo install` are extremely simplistic. > They download sources, build locally, and can only install executables > into the user's $PATH, nothing else. > > The RPM package provides: > - no need to download sources and compile everything locally > (including installation of the Rust compiler, C compiler, > development headers for C libraries that are used, etc.) > - system-wide installation integrated with the package manager > - integrated installation of shell completions, manual pages, etc. > > Most importantly, `cargo install` has *no* update mechanism (other > than running `cargo install` again), and has *no* mechanism at all for > shipping security updates to users. What you say all makes sense in terms of the leaf node (application) packages, where RPM or containers add value as a delivery format. When it comes to handling the dependancies that make up an application though, it is not so clear cut that packaging each dep as an RPM is inherantly better than bundling them with the application, supported by the native package tools where appropriate during packaging of the app, as well as during the day-to-day development work. With regards, Daniel -- |: https://berrange.com -o- https://www.flickr.com/photos/dberrange :| |: https://libvirt.org -o- https://fstop138.berrange.com :| |: https://entangle-photo.org -o- https://www.instagram.com/dberrange :| -- _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
