On 5/9/23 07:53, Stephen Smoogen wrote: > On Mon, 8 May 2023 at 19:35, Demi Marie Obenour <demiobenour@xxxxxxxxx> > wrote: > >> On 5/8/23 19:09, Neal Gompa wrote: >>> On Mon, May 8, 2023 at 7:05 PM Demi Marie Obenour <demiobenour@xxxxxxxxx> >> wrote: >>>> >>>> On 5/8/23 18:49, Kevin Fenzi wrote: >>>>> On Mon, May 08, 2023 at 09:29:02PM +0100, Sebastian Crane wrote: >>>>>> Dear Kevin, >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Hmm, quoting from https://pagure.io/releng/issue/11092: >>>>>>>>>> Also the aarch64 cluster is running on Fedora 33 boxes, so we >>>>>>>>>> should probably try to do a full redeploy :-( >>>>>>>>> We can't upgrade it from f33 because docker is no longer in f34+ >> and >>>>>>>>> openshift origin / 3.11 doesn't support any newer either. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Is this still true? I don't think we want to make the Fedora release >>>>>>>> process contingent on something that requires F33. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> yes, it's still true. Note thats the aarch64 osbs cluster. >>>>>>> The x86_64 one is rhel7. >>>>>> >>>>>> Might it be possible to replace Docker with CRI-O on the OpenShift >>>>>> cluster? >>>>> >>>>> Nope. openshift 3 / osbs1 uses docker. :( >>>>> >>>>> kevin >>>> >>>> alias docker=podman >>> >>> Using Podman with it through Podman's implementation of the Docker >>> Host protocol *may* work, but a version of Podman that has it is not >>> currently available for RHEL 7 (which is what OpenShift 3.11 runs on). >> >> Time for an OpenShift upgrade? >> >> > I realize people are trying to help with suggestions, but the problem is > that this is not a simple solution or it would have been done years ago. > > The Fedora Build System is a very complicated set of applications all tied > together with custom scripting, schema, and various updates over time. > There are somewhere around 40 core services and 30 more subsidiary ones > which need to be continually working to allow for the daily builds for > multiple releases. Many of those services have been added in at different > times with different operating systems and rules. In order to work with > each other a lot of 'glue' scripting, libraries and such are needed. > > You upgrade podman/docker in one section and you find that the message bus > isn't sending in another because an API call isn't there anymore. You try > putting in something which says it has a koji plugin and you find it > doesn't work with our koji and then you need to extend the plugin 40 ways > to work with bodhi, pdc, fedmsg and fedora-messaging, and a dozen other > things which all are the actual build system. Once those get fixed, you > find that it is now causing other glue parts to fail in odd ways no one > remembers why without some archaeological coding. Having ancient versions of OpenShift is almost certainly a security problem. If there is stuff that cannot be kept on a supported version it should be removed. > When dealing with the Build system side of things there is currently 1 > senior system administrator and 1 senior release engineer. There are some > volunteers who can work on subparts but mainly have day jobs doing other > things. Looking at IRC, most of the 10-12 hour work day is dealing with > compose problems, build issues, hardware failures, and similar things. Most > of the 40 component subsystems like the Open Shift Build System (OSBS) are > brought in by a dedicated team who have a budget time to get it working and > into place. Once that time is done, any fixes are on the Fedora staff or > working with available time from whatever team. This is the actual problem IMO. What will it take to fix it? > tl;dr: The Fedora Build System is in total a very complicated set of tools > where changing or upgrading any one part tends to cascade to fixing lots of > glue throughout the system. Instead of looking to upgrade things to add > more deliverables, it may be better to look at other ways to get those > deliverables built. Do you mean outside of the Fedora Build System? -- Sincerely, Demi Marie Obenour (she/her/hers)
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