On Fri, Apr 21, 2023 at 10:50:42AM +0200, Jarek Prokop wrote: > >also drives us towards more scattered communications. Our infamous > >mega-threads are not really effective for getting to community > >consensus, and tend to bring out the worst in us. > > Passionate people generate passionate discussion. > > The only thing you will gain by a forum is that at the point > the message will not be deemed appropriate, it will probably > be deleted or "beatified" by the mod team. The passion from our > human nature will not go away with a platform change. That's true -- and I'm not looking to get rid of passion, or silence opinions. But when something is _really_ out of line (often written in the heat of the moment), it's better to have options to ... as you say, beautify* the conversation. That makes it better for other people participating, and better for the person who has a chance to make their point in a more constructive way. * also, to fix typos :) [snip] > A discussion to a technical change, for me, will forever be in a ticket. > No matter the "wider discussion platform" projects will always have > bug trackers where one can create a ticket. Of course. That's not what I'm talking about. Consider for example this: https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/2817. That's not about the technical decision itself -- it's an branch of the conversation that should have been here. > >biased towards those for whom it is working just fine. But, core Fedora > >development discussion can’t be limited to that ever-shrinking group. > >Consider who isn’t here. The problems are real, and the trend isn’t in > >a good direction. > But, is it shrinking due to a platform, or something other? I don't think Fedora contribution and activity overall are shrinking. And I'm quite convinced that the platform is part of it. > It makes me want to try discourse out, not saying I'll stick around, I'm glad to hear that. > I am, luckily, not paid to read forums > with no threading. IMO, a stream of posts with mentions of previous > posts is not threading. Threading begins and ends > on new topic posts AFAICT on discourse. It's not presented as a tree, but there _are_ threads of replies. If you see something like "2 replies" under a particular post, you can click that and the view will be restricted to just those replies, which you can then follow further. Example: https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/future-of-encryption-in-fedora-desktop-variants/80397/83?replies_to_post_number=83 But also, yes — when something really diverges in Discourse, it should be a new topic. A moderator can move things after the fact (like I did with https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/getting-systemd-homed-working-properly-on-fedora-workstation/81004) but even better, when replying, you can create a linked topic. See https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/site-tip-create-linked-topics-for-deep-dives-or-tangents/34526 > But I'd be happier if there was some > tangible metric how to measure if we got more *related to the topic* > engagement. > I would hate to see 20 "+1" posts from "random" users counted > towards "it is better now". That's reasonable. Do you have suggestions for a good metric? > >In Project Discussion, each different Fedora team can have its own tag, > >and you can subscribe to those that you’re interested in. Cross-posting > >is easy: tag a post with multiple teams. > I'd be interested in having a kind of "crossroad sign", to direct me > towards tags what I would care about > from a packager perspective. Not happy about this change, but it > would make my experience a bit better... There's a big _index_ at https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/tags, but that's probably bit much (while at the same time not containing enough description). What would this "sign" ideally look like to you? > >That said, it is web-first software. (Or mobile, if that’s your thing.) > >That requires some adjustment, I know. I hope opening up a Fedora > >Discussion tab – or keeping one open — becomes an easy habit. > If I was a volunteer that's the thing I'd remember once in a blue > moon that it even exists. > But I guess that's just person to person :). There _are_ email notifications, and you can interact by replying to them. (You can even +1 or <3.) There is also a "digest" mail sent automatically if you're not active, showing active topics possibly of interest, which can serve as a more-frequent-than-blue-moon reminder. (You can turn this off, of course.) > As a person in my early 20s, I hate how everything is becoming web centric > and no one can convince me to feel otherwise. While I am hearing from > varying people around me, how it must be bad using email, it provides > client-side filtering unparalleled by any platform that I used in the > past. It's fine, but it's no NNTP. That was really the best. :) Do take a look at https://discussion.fedoraproject.org/t/guide-to-interacting-with-this-site-by-email/25960 It's not perfect, but it's better than most other forum software's email interfaces. > I enjoyed Fedora being on mailing lists, nothing ever came close to the > threading of emails. I was not getting lost in threads of conversation > while still being under the umbrella topic, no need to open who knows how > many links to read all tangents. I appreciate your perspective, feedback, and willingness to try this out! -- Matthew Miller <mattdm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> Fedora Project Leader _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Do not reply to spam, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure/new_issue
