On 09. 01. 23 17:47, Matthew Miller wrote:
On Sun, Jan 08, 2023 at 06:06:47PM +0100, Kevin Kofler via devel wrote:
PS: The impression I get is that everything was deliberately rigged so that
the vote would end up the way it did:
1. A new ticket was filed, in order to exclude the participants of the
previous discussion.
2. The people watching the old ticket were NOT notified.
3. The Tools Team was NOT notified.
4. The proponents of the Change, on the other hand, WERE notified.
I agree with your earlier post that this did not have enough visibility,
enough notice, or enough time. I was certainly taken by surprise, and I was
trying to keep an eye on this one in particular. (Having the discussion
under "Schedule for Tuesday's FESCo Meeting" didn't help it jump out at me
either.)
BUT, I do not think it was done with malice, as "deliberately rigged"
implies. I don't see that at all -- I see excitement and interest in moving
forward on something that already has taken a long time, and looming
practical deadlines.
Therefore, I hereby request that the vote be annulled as having happened
in violation of the Change policy.
So, from a purely "what are the rules?" view, the Change process says:
FESCo will vote to approve or deny a change proposal in accordance with
the FESCo ticket policy.
... and I won't quote all of that, but looking at
https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fesco/#_ticket_policy...
I don't see any violations, either in the letter or the spirit of what is
written.
And, from a practical point of view, since this passed with six +1 votes,
I'm not sure what benefit canceling and re-voting would really add.
It might be useful to improve both the documented policies. The Changes
policy has nothing about reconsidering Changes in the current cycle that I
can see. (Or, actually, for that matter, for resubmitting in future cycles
either, unless i'm missing something.) And the FESCo ticket policy could
include a) some steps for wider communication, and b) maybe something about
holidays and other times which might need special consideration.
Most crucially, let's please drop the idea that anyone is acting out of malice. I'm
quite sure that everyone arguing passionately on both sides of this issue
has the best interest of Fedora and of Fedora Linux users in mind. Let's all
keep that framing in mind in the ongoing discussion. Thank you.
I feel like I need to add some words as a chair of the meeting where this was
approved.
First, let me apologize for not suggesting that we should invite all the
stakeholders to the meeting before we voted. In retrospect, this was a bad call
on my part and I sincerely regret it.
When the ticket was opened on Decmeber 28th, when many Fedora contributors were
spending time with their families etc. instead of on Fedora, I raised my
concerns about the date, as I was afraid it might be approved by gaining +3
votes in a week without the remaining FESCo members even knowing about this.
Fortunately, another FESCo member voted -1, hence this option was no longer my
concern. That immediately pushed the ticket to the agenda of the meeting on
January 3rd.
During the meeting, I felt like the proposal is gaining a (close) majority of
the required votes and I decided to conduct the vote because I felt like all
the discussion topics wrt this were already exhausted. I am not sure if this
was a good call, but I am pretty confident that postponing the vote would have
not changed the results.
Considering the mass rebuild is happening really soon, I feel like repeating
the vote later is not helpful, but if people want to, we can surely run the
vote again. However, I am confident the result will be the same.
--
Miro Hrončok
--
Phone: +420777974800
IRC: mhroncok
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