Re: F38 proposal: Strong crypto settings: phase 3, forewarning 2/2 (System-Wide Change proposal)

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On Wed, Sep 14, 2022 at 11:45:16AM +0200, Alexander Sosedkin wrote:
> On Tue, Sep 13, 2022 at 7:35 PM Kevin Fenzi <kevin@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > How about this:
> >
> > Drop the term 'jump scare' entirely. IMHO it just sounds bad.
> 
> I'm open for proposals on the wording. =)

Well, I guess it depends on if you still want to implement it and then
plan to roll it back or not... see below.
> 
> > Rework the change so it's basically planning on making this change in
> > f38.
> 
> That makes it closer than currently,
> defeating the purpose of letting people prepare.

True, it possibly makes the timeline shorter. 
If thats a concern, perhaps you would consider just targeting f39 and
for f38 just doing test days and reminders asking developers to test
instead of changing it and then changing it back?
> 
> > Before f38 beta freeze, change owners/fesco looks at the state of things
> > and decides if it can remain on in f38 and if not, it gets reverted and
> > moved to f39.
> 
> Not sure how it's better than reverting in branched f38 but not rawhide,
> unless the goal is to hasten the change.

It's better because it seems more direct and honest to me. 
It means you are landing a change and trying to get it done, not landing
it to break people and then at the last minute after people rush to fix
things, removing it again. I also suspect there will be some feet
dragging due to this: "Oh, it's broken now, but they are going to revert
it anyhow, so I won't do anything".
> 
> > In the run up to f38 beta we could:
> >
> > * run a series of test days. perhaps one before you enable it in
> > rawhide, one a month or two later and one right before f38 beta
> > freeze?
> 
> I'm for more test days.
> There was one held already and I'm open for holding more in the future.
> Plus I should attempt some side-tag mass-rebuild or equivalent,
> but I, unfortunately, won't get to it until October at the earliest.

Sure, understand time is low for everyone. ;( 

> > * see if openqa might have some way to set TEST-FEDORA39 and re-run
> > tests on a compose or updates? This might be a good thing to try and do
> > before landing it in rawhide.
> 
> Sounds great if that's a possibility, but I don't know how to approach it.

Perhaps Adam can chime in here...
 
> > * setup a tracking bug to track the issues, so we can make a more
> > informed decision before f38 beta.
> >
> > Thoughts?
> 
> If the core of your proposal is
> * make it happen in f38 and revert and push back to f39 only if necessary
> as opposed to
> * make it happen in f38 rawhide, f39 rawhide, f39 branched and released,
>   but not f38 branched (the current proposal)
> then I can't say I understand what you are trying to achieve with
> that.

I don't care for "Here's a change, adjust to it please! Hurry!" Oh, just
kidding, it will not take effect until next cycle. That just seems to be
dishonest to our users. 

> IMO it makes the switch less certain, more frantic and more abrupt,
> while I was trying to smoothen it out in time as far as possible.

I don't think it's possible to cleanly spread out a change like this
over more than 1 long fedora cycle. 

> 
> So +1 on all the accompanying activities possible,
> -1 on expediting the switch.

ok. I'm not sure where the rest of fesco is on this, but I guess we will
see. :) 

Thanks for listening. 

kevin

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