On 4/21/22 12:35, Adam Williamson wrote: > On Thu, 2022-04-21 at 10:10 -0400, Adam Jackson wrote: >> On Wed, Apr 20, 2022 at 6:06 PM Kevin Kofler via devel >> <devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>> >>> Adam Williamson wrote: >>>> Right now it's not entirely clear whether this is considered part of >>>> the Change scope or not. The paragraph about the `uvesafb` driver seems >>>> kind of aspirational and doesn't seem to commit to anything. The >>>> "Benefit to Fedora" section states "Verified modern supported paths for >>>> cases currently handled by vesa/fbdev", but I'm not 100% clear what is >>>> meant by that. >>> >>> IMHO, it is not acceptable to remove the vesa driver without having >>> something like uvesafb to replace it. >> >> I like how I'm being told _not_ to find out where the remaining bugs >> are in our native drivers, and instead preserve something awful for >> eternity. > > Well, come on, you're not being "told" anything. Neither me nor Kevin > is your boss. This is a Change proposal, it's sent to this list for > people to discuss it and provide feedback on it. That's what we're > doing. > > From my perspective, it's fine to find bugs in native drivers, but if a > user is hitting such a bug and has no obvious way to get around it, we > are in danger of giving them a negative perception of Fedora and losing > them as a user. We know this is not an academic case: we have an active > bug right now where we have two people with NVIDIA cards which do not > work with nouveau, but "basic graphics mode" works (now xorg-x11-drv- > vesa has been fixed). Is that going to get fixed in the next few days? > If not, Fedora 36 will ship that way, and anyone with one of those > cards is going to be grateful that "basic graphics mode" exists. > > I'm also not sure I agree it's clear that we'd find more bugs if the > fallback path didn't exist. People don't usually just boot straight in > "basic graphics mode", after all. They try a regular boot, and if it > fails, maybe they try "basic graphics mode". So they already *know* > there's a bug - and at least this way we give them a working system and > maybe they'd be more motivated to file the bug than if we just leave > them stuck. We *do* get bug reports when this happens, it's not like we > never hear about these experiences. Could basic graphics mode use the EFI framebuffer on EFI systems? -- Sincerely, Demi Marie Obenour (she/her/hers)
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