On 10/5/21 04:39, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:
On Mon, Oct 04, 2021 at 12:07:30PM -0700, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
On Mon, Oct 04, 2021 at 01:03:27PM -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
Hi all! I just got back from Open Source Summit, several of the talks I
found interesting were on RISC-V -- a high-level one about the
organizational structure, and Drew Fustini's more technical talk.
In that, he noted that there's a Fedora build *, but it isn't an official
Fedora arch. As I understand it, the major infrastructure blocker is simply
that there isn't server-class hardware (let alone hardware that will build
fast enough that it isn't a frustrating bottleneck).
We have avoided using emulation in the past because we would be chasing
bugs in our emulation that aren't in real hardware and vice versa.
How good is the emulation support? Do we know/have people who can fix
things in it when we hit them? Tools folks: is emulation an option here?
Or do we still forbid it?
Qemu support for RISC-V is very good, it's actually used to develop
some features (virtualization and SBI). We do know people who can fix it.
If you have the money real hardware is also available now.
Personally speaking I think the real barrier is someone with a large
colourful hat putting up the money to hire a full time developer to
work on the project.
I know Wei FU(FAS: tekkamanninja) is actively working on porting Fedora
to RISC-V. He has his BSP for D1 which he already put up a wiki[1]. I'm
about to help him get LXQt desktop up on D1 soon.
In current situation maybe it makes more sense to start thinking about
making all RISC-V contributors work together rather than doing
everything on each own, which would be much efficient.
[1] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Architectures/RISC-V/Allwinner
Rich.
So, one question is: if we used, say, ARM or x86_64 Amazon cloud instances
as builders, could we build fast enough under QEMU emulation to work? We
have a nice early advantage, but if we don't keep moving, we'll lose that.
But beyond that: What other things might be limits? Are there key bits of
the distro which don't build yet? Is there a big enough risc-v team to
respond to arch-specific build failures? And, do we have enough people to do
QA around release time?
Well, one big thing is that it's been a while since we had any secondary
arches and it's unclear how they would work today. In the distant past
secondary arches had their own koji and builders and composes and
releases and used koji-shadow to try and match up with primary koji.
This was basically more than a full time job for someone and I am sure
koji-shadow has atrophied in recent years, but perhaps at least some
subset could be made to work again.
On the other hand we could just add it into primary koji, but then it
really really has to keep up or it's going to block everything else.
So, probibly a 'secondary' koji and builders to start with to bootstrap
and to gather info on how hard it is to keep up and good emulation is
would be worthwhile, but it's gonna need some dedicated work.
Perhaps we could get a up to date status report from folks working on
this, answering such questions as:
* How good is emulation support
* What would it take to keep up with the other arches? Is that possible?
* What device(s) would we want to target and could we get sufficent
numbers of them for QA and devel folks to debug problems and test?
* Are there folks who can bootstrap/shepard the koji shadowing process?
I think RISC-V is pretty exciting, and I am happy to help as much as I
can with adding it in. I think there's likely to be a lot of
interest/growth in coming years for it.
kevin
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