On pe, 04 kesä 2021, Fabio Valentini wrote:
On Thu, Jun 3, 2021 at 11:31 PM Jerry James <loganjerry@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I've just been looking through my packager-dashboard page. A
depressingly large chunk of my packages are going to become
unbuildable on Monday when a bunch of orphaned Java packages are
retired. I think a lot of us are going to be affected. In my case,
there are quite a few non-Java packages involved (due to the parser
generators antlr3 and antlr4-project), primarily OCaml and python
packages. Mikolaj has a huge pile of work on his shoulders, so don't
take this as criticism of him.
Here are some of the pain points:
- log4j will be retired, which will break ant.
- hamcrest2 will be retired, which will break apache-commons-lang3,
which will break bcel, which will also break ant.
- google-gson and javassist will be retired, which will break
reflections, which will break jna, which is used by about a dozen
packages, including bcel.
- maven-install-plugin will be retired, which will break tycho, which
will break eclipse.
- args4j will be retired, which will break jacoco and jgit.
- maven-invoker-plugin and several of its dependencies
(maven-doxia-sitetools, plexus-velocity, maven-reporting-api,
maven-script-interpreter, and maven-reporting-impl) will be retired,
which will break xml-maven-plugin, which is used by eclipse.
- jakarta-el and jakarta-server-pages will be retired, which will break eclipse.
- aopalliance will be retired, which will break maven-native.
- jdependency will be retired, which will break maven-shade-plugin,
which is used by openjfx8, a dependency of java-1.8.0-openjdk.
- apache-ivy will be retired, which will break javapackages-tools.
There's even more problems. Some of those packages are also transitive
dependencies of PKI and FreeIPA (core component of Fedora Server
etc.).
I knew two of the guys who worked on the Fedora packages for this
stack, but both have since left Red Hat, so I have no idea what's
going on there.
Dogtag team includes few more people than those who left the team. They
were working past month with other Java teams at Red Hat to figure out
how to support these dependencies in a longer term. The issue of dropped
dependencies is taken seriously but since it involved internal teams'
responsibilities, the discussiuon is not happening on a public mailing
list.
With the help of Mikalaj and Coty, hopefully, most of the issues would
be solved, though at a cost of most of the depdendencies not used by
Dogtag trimmed down. In addition, Dogtag is dropping some of own
internal dependencies to switch its API from XML to JSON[1]. XML support
in Dogtag's REST API is what forces it to require so many orphaned
dependencies in Fedora.
In general, despite Red Hat's generally big involvement in the Java
world (with OpenJDK, JBoss, WildFly, Quarkus, etc.), their interest in
actually maintaining packages for those projects (except the JDKs) is
... non-existent, which I find baffling.
In my discussion with some Java application developers, their primary
point of view is that Maven infrastructure provides them with the required
content. There are point of view clashes with the needs of distributions
like Fedora or RHEL. While for RHEL purposes there are infrastructure
pipelines that allow to rebuild curated Maven content and then
package it automatically in a RHEL-friendly way, Fedora project didn't
accept this concept in past[2] -- I am sharing most of the arguments in
[3] myself. Red Hat's Java-based product deployments are wider than
targetting RHEL or Fedora, that makes a need for unified delivery
approach prioritized and any deviations are much harder to handle.
[1] https://github.com/dogtagpki/pki/issues/3553
[2] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/KojiMavenSupport
[3] https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Talk:KojiMavenSupport
--
/ Alexander Bokovoy
Sr. Principal Software Engineer
Security / Identity Management Engineering
Red Hat Limited, Finland
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