On Fri, 2021-05-28 at 12:26 -0400, PGNet Dev wrote: > On 5/28/21 12:14 PM, Adam Williamson wrote: > > On Fri, 2021-05-28 at 12:01 -0400, PGNet Dev wrote: > > > On 5/27/21 2:04 PM, Nick Bebout wrote: > > > > Since its beginnings, the Fedora Project has used the freenode IRC network for our project communications. Due to a variety of recent changes to that network, the Fedora Project is moving our IRC communications to Libera.Chat. > > > > > > If a still-fuzzy "variety of recent changes to that network" are the reason for this latest fire-drill/tempest, then just fyi, > > > A Lee's provided some documented reply, > > > > > > https://raw.githubusercontent.com/freenode/web-7.0/main/static/files/on-freenode.pdf > > > https://freenode.net/news/post-mortem-may21 > > > > > > To my read it doesn't seem as clear-cut as some are making it all out to be. If 'trust' is the underlying issue here, there seems to be enuf not passing the smell test on 'both sides'. > > > > > > IME, projects want a place to talk that's trustworthy. > > > > Freenode has also shut down every channel that posted a libera.chat > > link in its topic. That's not very 'trustworthy'. This happened to > > multiple Fedora-related projects/channels, including #cockpit , for > > instance. > > Sure. And, what? Not the 1st time projects have acted on "don't talk about other projects in here" ... > Did anyone try to contact @freenode about that? I certainly dunno about that. Maybe so, maybe not. There was a huge backlash which resulted in a half-hearted not-really- an-apology a couple of days ago: https://freenode.net/news/post-mortem-may21 but at that point the damage was already pretty comprehensively done. > Just reading through those screenshotted chats, etc, seems 2 me there's enough "shouldn't have handled it that way" to go around. Personally speaking I don't tend to care a lot about what people (from any group) were saying to each other in private conversations behind the scenes. However, the fact that only one party is releasing private conversations presumably without the consent of the other party seems...significant, especially when one of the more important trusts we place in the parties in question is to protect the privacy of tens of thousands of *other* people's private conversations. > > If it's all thoroughly researched, understood, and rationally decided, then I'm certainly cool with it. > > All _I_ heard was some buzz in #fedora* @ freenode a week or so back that "moving fast/immediately is too hard, and would be too disruptive to users", and then suddenly, this^^ email. Yeah, that was the position initially, when it wasn't entirely clear if there was a Right Side and a Wrong Side, and there was no completely clear reason to question the good faith of either side. We figured we'd hedge for some time at least, as did many other projects. No-one particularly wanted to spend several days at pantscon 1 shifting a ton of stuff from one IRC network to another. But Freenode taking over hundreds of channels that did nothing more than put a link to another channel on another network in their #topic rather focused people's minds on the issue, I think. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA IRC: adamw | Twitter: adamw_ha https://www.happyassassin.net _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Do not reply to spam on the list, report it: https://pagure.io/fedora-infrastructure
