On 11/15/20 4:31 PM, Lennart Poettering wrote: > On So, 15.11.20 10:18, Marius Schwarz (fedoradev@xxxxxxxxxxxx) wrote: > >> Am 11.11.20 um 16:58 schrieb Lennart Poettering: >>> So if you configure 4 DNS servers then each will still get roughly >>> 1/4th of your requests? That's still quite a lot of info. >> the more you use, and i did, the better it protects against tracking by the >> dns cache owners. Use stubby. 1/4 is not enough, more resolvers are necessary. Or just find a trusted ISP and hide in his resolver crowd. >> >> How about putting this as a feature request in resolved? > > Please file an RFE issue on github: > > https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/new?template=Feature_request.md > > Implementing this does not come without drawbacks though: right now > resolved tries hard to use the same server if at all possible, since > we want to use newer DNS features if possible, but many DNS servers > (wifi routers, yuck) tend to support them quite badly. This means > resolved has an elaborate scheme to learn about the feature set of the > DNS servers it contacts. And that can be slow, in particular on > servers where we step-by-step have to downgrade to the most minimal of > DNS protocols. This learning phase is run only when first contacting > some server (and after some grace period). Understood, learning about server features, especially weird ones that use request drop instead of request refusal, can take some time. It definitely should be cached for some time. If we'd switch servers all > the time, for every single lookup, then we'd start from zero every > time, not knowing what the server supports, and thus having to learn > about it over and over again. This would hence make all, > *every*single* transaction pretty slow. And that sucks. This is ridiculous. It might be limitation of current systemd-resolved implementation, but it is not necessary. All DNS servers track info about used remotes and their detected features. Even dnsmasq, which is not full recursive server, just like systemd-resolved. It can learn about each configured server and keep information about it cached for some time. Just like TTL of cached records. It can also flush such cache on interface configuration change, network errors from the server etc. But it does not have to learn everything about a server, because it switched the active one. If it has to, try to find way to store server instance features per server IP, not per link. > > It might be something to add as opt-in, and come with the warning that > you better list DNS servers that aren't crap if you want to use that, > so that we never have to downgrade protocol level, and thus the > learning phase is short. Sure enough, many router DNS implementations are bad or ugly. If it can choose from full featured validated ISP resolver and crappy router implementation, prefer the one with better features. Most likely it is much better maintained as well. However, some people rely on the order of used servers in resolv.conf. First server might know some local names, which secondary backup does not know about. Such situation is impossible to detect automatically, but is not too uncommon. I miss some way to force first server always first if possible. Something like --strict-order of dnsmasq. > > (There have been suggestions to probe ahead-of-time, i.e. already > before we have to dispatch the first lookup request to it, i.e. at the > time the DNS server address is configured. However that is a privacy > issue, too, since it means systems would suddenly start contacting DNS > servers, even without anyone needing it.) > >> It should of course use encrypted protocols first. It is questionable, how much are encrypted protocols needed. Of course, ISP can monitor all your traffic. They can usually monitor all your queries. But if you seek protection for it, why don't you change your ISP? Thanks to GDPR, they cannot just sell information about your actions without your consent. And cannot force you to give the consent too. If you connect to ISP's server, they can see your queries anyway. Even encrypted. If you don't, they can see TLS info, which usually leaks plaintext hostnames too. In the last resort, then can see targetted IPs and can deduce from them a lot. In short, if you dont trust them, use full VPN or change them altogether. Most of us living in a free world can do that. > It supports DoT since a longer time. Is currently opt-in on Fedora > though, but we should change that. > > DoT becomes efficient when we can reuse the established TCP/TLS connection > for multiple lookups. But if we'd switch servers all the time, then of > course there's no reuse of TCP/TLS connections possible. I don't see a reason for it here as well. It should be perfectly possible to have 3 connections to one server and 2 to another one. And randomize queries to each connection. Reuse of TLS connection is definitely wanted feature. Again, it might be limitation of current implementation, but it is possible. I admit maintaining multiple connections is much harder to implement (properly). > > or in other words: adding this conflicts with other (and I think more > important) goals here. Thus if we add this, only as option i > figure. It's not suitable as sensible default. > > Lennart > -- Petr Menšík Software Engineer Red Hat, http://www.redhat.com/ email: pemensik@xxxxxxxxxx PGP: DFCF908DB7C87E8E529925BC4931CA5B6C9FC5CB
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