The Future of the Java Stack (also regarding ELN and RHEL)

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Hi everybody,

So, after some recent FESCo decisions (no default module streams in
fedora, new Module Policy for fedora and ELN modules), it's time to
ask this question again:

What's the future of the Java Stack in fedora, and by extension, in
ELN (and possibly RHEL)?

For the past ~18 months, the Stewardship SIG has picked up the pieces
that were left after the failed attempt of "modularizing" the Java
stack, and now the "re-founded" Java SIG has taken over this effort.
We've been maintaining the core part of the Java stack (about 200
packages) - first trying to keep it from imploding, and lately, trying
to keep it working and up-to-date (also, Java 11 by default, yay).

However! This has mostly been a one-man-show, with regular
contributions by Mat Booth (whos thankless task is maintaining the
Eclipse stack) and the Dogtag PKI team (thanks guys!), who have lately
been busy doing other things (fixing blocker bugs for F33 and RHEL
8.3).

Looking at the Java packages I own, most of them also wind up in ELN,
so I assume that they're going to end up in RHEL at some point. And
here I'm asking myself the question: Who's going to maintain those 200
Java packages? Because I have seen *zero* people from Red Hat
interacting with the Java stack in fedora in any substantial way in
the past year - and by that I mean more than one commit to a package
they didn't own or sending one PR on src.fp.org.

While working through the *massive* backlog of issues and neglected
package updates in the Java stack, I also went through with multiple
non-responsive maintainer processes, and almost nobody from the
original people who maintained Java packages in fedora are left. Some
of those were Red Hat employees, but are apparently no longer, or have
moved on to work on different things.

Not even the Java modules (javapackages-tools, maven, ant, ...) seem
to be in better shape - none of them have been touched in the last 10
months, except for automated mass rebuild commits. They are now pretty
out of sync with mainstream fedora, and they still only target the
"oldstable" fedora 31 platform. Since javapackages-tools:20190x and
maven:3.5 are also no longer default streams, they are unused (?), and
seem to have been abandoned.

So. Who is actually maintaining the Java stack in RHEL? I can't tell.
Who is maintaining the core build tools (xmvn, maven, ant, etc.)? Why
are they not - or no longer - contributing to fedora packages or
interacting with fedora maintainers? Does Red Hat no longer care about
all their Java products [1]? Can we please increase the bus / lottery
factor (= 1) for Java package maintenance in fedora?

Fabio / decathorpe

PS: I'm not talking about the JDK packages here. They're in good
hands, as far as I can tell.

[1]: JBoss / WildFly were among the first things to be retired during
the modularity calamity, because nobody cared. But what about the
shiny new thing, Quarkus? Will it ever be packaged for fedora?
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