On Thu, Jul 02, 2020 at 05:05:09PM +0100, Daniel P. Berrangé wrote: > On Thu, Jul 02, 2020 at 03:53:26PM +0000, Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek wrote: > > Hi, > > > > this is partially an outgrowth of the discussion about btrfs as > > default, but makes sense independently too... > > > > It would be great if we could fairly reliably boot with a read-only > > root file system, all the way to the graphical environment. Obviously, > > such a machine will not be fully functional, but for users, debugging a > > disk problem when they have the normal environment with windows, > > tabbed terminals, graphical editors, and internet is vastly easier. > > > > It also creates an image of robustness. Imagine that instead of being > > rudely dropped to a terminal prompt, the user is instead able to log in > > as usual and see a popup like > > > Your home directory is read-only. Do this and that. See https://... > > > > Is the goal to have *everything* working? No. Some services will and > > should fail. If I have a database or anything else which only makes > > sense with permanent storage, failing early and loudly is appropriate. > > But services which need writable storage only tangentially or not at > > all should be robust and not fail. Journald behaves in a fashion where > > it stores logs to /run during early boot and them flushes them to /var/log > > when that becomes available. If /var/log never become available, we > > have a functional logs, with journalctl showing previous and current boot > > just fine. The only caveat is that logs for current boot will be lost > > upon reboot. Such graceful failure should be the norm. > > I presume you're referring to regular Fedora here, but this description > feels like it is approx asking for what Fedora Silverblue has delivered, > only with the writable area for apps being just a ram disk with no > persistence. No, quite the opposite. I am talking about making the best out of a failure situation on a normal Fedora installation. I don't want to boot routinely in such a mode. I want to boot ro, look for help on the internet and in man pages, do some fsck operations on the read-only disk, and finally remount the disk rw and carry on with my day. Zbyszek > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/fedora-silverblue/ > > "Silverblue is a variant of Fedora Workstation. It looks, > feels and behaves like a regular desktop operating system, > and the experience is similar to what you find with using > a standard Fedora Workstation. > > However, unlike other operating systems, Silverblue is > immutable. This means that every installation is identical > to every other installation of the same version. The operating > system that is on disk is exactly the same from one machine to > the next, and it never changes as it is used. > > Silverblue’s immutable design is intended to make it more > stable, less prone to bugs, and easier to test and develop. > Finally, Silverblue’s immutable design also makes it an > excellent platform for containerized applications as well > as container-based software development. In each case, > applications (apps) and containers are kept separate from > the host system, improving stability and reliability." > > > Regards, > Daniel > -- > |: https://berrange.com -o- https://www.flickr.com/photos/dberrange :| > |: https://libvirt.org -o- https://fstop138.berrange.com :| > |: https://entangle-photo.org -o- https://www.instagram.com/dberrange :| > _______________________________________________ > devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
