-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE----- Hash: SHA512 Hi Richard, On Tue, 2020-05-19 at 07:03 -0500, Richard Shaw wrote: > So I get the whole Fedora first, but... > > Backstory: > > FreeCAD has been in a terrible state in Fedora for a couple of years > now > and I've nearly given up on trying to maintain the package a few > times now. > The previous battle was with the Coin3D stack which finally got > updated to > Coin4 in f32 (then Rawhide). I constantly got bugs submitted that > freecad > was broken in f31 and my answer was, "Be patient it'll finally be > fixed in > Fedora 32 where the Coin3D stack is updated!". Was this caused by upgrade of Coin3D stack in Fedora? I did not see any Change Proposal for this in F32, so probably this should have been better communicated / tested? > However, that was a lie. Unintentional, but a lie nonetheless. > > Fedora 32 releases and I'm enthusiastic that freecad will finally be > *fixed*! And then I get my first BZ, now PySide2 is broken... Why? > > Because Qt 5.13.x / PySide2 5.13.x is NOT compatible with Python 3.8. > But > instead of asking ourselves, "should we push in the VERY latest > Python and > hope it's ok?", we just patch the build system to accept it anyway > and hope > for the best. I think pushing for latest Python is the best approach for Fedora, but I agree that this is unfortunate. However, it is not only about Python, we also have GCC / glibc and others which are built from master branch in the beginning of Rawhide so that it gets some testing. > Qt (et all) is a pretty organized upstream, so when asked about > Python 3.8 > support in 5.13.x, they said, "Nope. Wait for 5.14.x." I think what could help here is to make sure that list of specific applications / framework works with new version of Python when Python team is upgrading it. If we are not pushing upstream to support new version of Python, it will happen but much later. Also we are not pushing for new versions of Python in stable releases, so at least that is not affected. > What good does that do me? At the time it wasn't released, and once > it was > only Rawhide got it. And I get why. Updating the whole Qt stack and > rebuilding all the dependencies is pretty a pretty painful process. I think we should get people who maintain Qt on board when updating Python so that they make sure to backport necessary patches from upstream when we upgrade Python. > So all that to say, we seem to be taking "Fedora First" to mean, > we're > going to update regardless of what it breaks. All this is about balance, if it breaks only 1% of applications, but helps 40% of applications (all numbers are random here from my head) it makes sense to upgrade. Not breaking even 1% of applications is what RHEL is supposed to solve, not Fedora. > This is a little more ranty that I intended it to be, and no, I'm not > going > to go research and paste a bunch of BZ urls, this isn't about asking > for > help, it's more policy related. > > Hell, I still have one project that all but refuses to update to > Python 3! > > Fortuantly a user found a github project that had the needed patches > backported from 5.14.x! Fingers crossed freecad will work again for > more > than 5 seconds. That would be cool! > Now I'm being told PySide2 doesn't build with Python 3.9 pre-release. > I'm > not surprised! It's not even released yet. I can (and will) inform > upstream. But what do you think their answer is going to be? Wait for > 5.15? Ask upstream to always test with develop version of Python, I believe that services like Travis CI have 3.9-dev prepared so that they can test early and adopt. Meanwhile, if they can just link all relevant fixes - just backport them in Rawhide. > Ok, rant over. Thank you for sharing your experience here. > Thanks, > Richard > _______________________________________________ > devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx - -- Igor Raits <ignatenkobrain@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQIzBAEBCgAdFiEEcwgJ58gsbV5f5dMcEV1auJxcHh4FAl7D15AACgkQEV1auJxc Hh5r3A//VWxp4WlTbr7KmWXJpGoCmbMeEgT2z8VERYpeCMs4AIkalupx5DiyEf9v 24kpOqL3mC2djRQ5w0Qg69eF2UjOry+we6b5baXZwcnJmVS8ADB4QBSfMDzwaIw4 TpC53F/cRmKj3mtCpGED2pbh980yB8xB49gc8xATj3Ip7TrVTwqRB1InUw0uDfU/ 3Vpbb5QY14YkVR/Y+4f4ZzWHYJRlKiWNjEf4ALVYR3HZ6R+CSiTJbvK1HcCquV2R 5YZR+jLetM4odaA09kSIRr6egO9fyZTfAFxl8MBRVVJxoz0FSK03WA0JrEFn4guq f6L2b8c2jy7TTk1UniZwCBqc+Y40pFawRqRDjkojcWUPOiP6UOpDcDpKx4EcMtoq ZnxMFL8I93wxbuGhrzbNglTcjF2PWQatZeCRktARgCbZyxxX5P6lHXbpRUdVx/0H +o+tv3JLIMBGvX7wp9rxA6uHJJtrJfgJpqhR4KTd/DBYOefaKjP+MWdax9xJO4Sa OubWohjBtPAzLozEzgupB+NoTox0ljk6MmVLctKb78+5/XYULkQeVMPDYnOJX+aR 3TEbGAq1Qus6YHvHuKcsGg0fh6FhYJkHA+An9Hk70n+cD0kkau8WIJk5pdA9lziU a5OwRhZYJ5dRDVZNdrKutP7zb9vEgtgBAjDDqFipuZRBVPRODTk= =94nS -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
