On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 2:14 PM Neal Gompa <ngompa13@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 8:48 AM Josh Boyer <jwboyer@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 8:42 AM Stasiek Michalski <stasiek@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > > On Mon, Apr 6, 2020 at 8:26 AM Stasiek Michalski <stasiek(a)michalski.cc> wrote:
> > >
> > > Why is it disappointing? The Pagure project isn't suddenly being
> > > removed from the internet. Is there a reason you can't contribute to
> > > it to add the features you need?
> >
> > I can add features, sure, and I do, but I am also not able or willing to
> > maintain everything else that goes with Pagure. My disappointment is
> > much more of a manifestation of a fear that if CPE ends up going with
> > Gitlab, there will be nobody else interested enough to maintain it,
> > since Fedora will no longer have any interest in it.
>
> That's a reasonable fear. However, the only way to guarantee that
> fear becomes reality is to walk away from the project out of fear.
>
> Open source works because people contribute. If you want the project
> to live, keep contributing. You can always reassess who is
> contributing and what the health of the Pagure community is as you go.
> Others have said they want to see it succeed, so hopefully they'll
> also contribute. If they don't, and Pagure stagnates, then maybe the
> interest wasn't in building something, it was in having somebody else
> build it for them.
>
Yes, but if part of the draw of using Pagure is to federate with other
servers, the drop in the "network" weakens things.
Folks have said it before on here and other places: they use
GitHub.com for the network effect. They don't like GitHub, but they
use it because they value the "network" more than their principles.
But building a network is not a simple process, and takes time, too.
It's interesting: if you look at the adoption curve for GitLab
relative to when it was created, Pagure isn't doing that badly. GitLab
was created in 2011 and most of its adoption/growth started at the end
of 2015, rising much more dramatically after the end of 2016. Pagure
was created in 2014 as progit, and then renamed a couple years later.
Fedora itself only deployed Pagure in 2017, and the CentOS instance
was rolled out in 2019. Around the same time last year, Pagure was
introduced to the openSUSE community formally and packaged there.
Mageia started looking at it in earnest only a month or so ago. The
Free Software Foundation started working on their Pagure deployment
last summer, and the intent is to launch it by this summer. Trisquel
will be setting up their instance in a matter of weeks. And I'm
ignoring the instances run by companies internally (who aren't even
Red Hat and *do* send contributions upstream!) and the instances run
by people for personal use. ForgeFed is securing funding to hire a
developer to work on Pagure, even!
When you look at the timeline, we're doing pretty damn well compared
to GitLab on the adoption curve. That in itself says that Pagure is
worth something to people. From my view, there are three things that
make Pagure much more attractive:
1. Freedom/federated/decentralized philosophy
2. Fully FOSS as opposed to Open Core
3. Backed by a trusted organization (Fedora) that uses FOSS to support
itself and stands for its principles while not being polarizing to the
greater OSS community
This whole CPE team debacle is attempting to destroy point number 3.
I disagree that we are destroying point 3. CPE cannot own everything and the maintenance of a git forge was outside of our scope of responsibility and Pagure can and should live on irrespective of the CPE teams involvement -- an involvement that really ceased in late 2018 but was being carried on by the passions of individuals in their spare time. The choice here was to invest and become the Pagure team and build out a git forge and staff it accordingly or to add features to Fedora and CentOS that users want / need.
Whether that kills the slowly building momentum for the Pagure project
or not, I don't know. But I'm hoping it doesn't.
--
真実はいつも一つ！/ Always, there's only one truth!
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