----- Original Message ----- > From: "Stephen John Smoogen" <smooge@xxxxxxxxx> > To: "Development discussions related to Fedora" <devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Sent: Wednesday, January 29, 2020 8:47:46 AM > Subject: Re: Java Dev Group and Fedora Quality > > On Wed, 29 Jan 2020 at 05:14, Andrew Haley <aph@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > > On 1/27/20 3:13 PM, Alex Scheel wrote: > > > N.B.: I'd like to thank the Red Hat JVM team for being solid in > > > their Fedora execution. But they maintain only the JVM, and not > > > the rest of the Java ecosystem. :-) > > > > Thank you. > > > > One (perhaps) rather minor point in the middle of this important > > discussion: there is no "Red Hat JVM team." We're responsible for the > > entire base Java (SE) platform, that is to say the VM and the > > surrounding Java libraries. > > > > Also, we're not just responsible for RHEL and Fedora: our team and our > > partners in a few other organizations are responsible for all OpenJDK > > updates for 7, 8, and 11, everywhere, not just GNU and Linux. Which is > > to say, apart from Oracle's proprietary customers, most of the Java in > > the world. > > > > The issue is that people (developers, users, maintainers) lump the > entire ecosystem together.. so yes you maintain that but why don't you > also maintain all the java packages which sit on that platform so it > is 'useful' to them. [Yes the question is one of scope, time and > resources.. but to a lot of people it needs clear explanations in the > same way that people will take their Ford to a Toyoto autoshop because > 'its a car, you should be able to fix it'] Right Andrew: Stephen was drawing the distinction I was trying to make. I lump the Java SE platform into "roughly" what I was calling the JVM team. You're roughly the group that does what'd be the "core" work in other languages: maintains the compilers and the stdlib. My terminology there was incorrect; I suppose "JRE" is more correct. Is it correct to say that your team and immediate coworkers don't maintain say, the Apache libraries, the various build systems, IDEs, and the JBoss libraries? My point is that some language SIGs/teams take a more active role in making sure a decent amount of non-stdlib software runs and is maintained by them. The "core" Java (JVM + JRE) team doesn't seem to engage in other places. Which is totally fine, from my PoV, as long as there is communication between the two parts and between the group and the wider Fedora community, and the overall experience is inclusive. Instead, most of the library support falls to Joe's team, including Mikolaj. That's where most of the shortcomings in Java packaging are seen, including unfriendly, non-inclusive modularization policies. They're the ones that have orphaned large segments of packages, which ultimately lead to starting this mail thread. :-) Perhaps putting words in Bill's mouth here, but I don't subscribe any of his issues to the JRE team. They're mostly caused by issues in a lot of packages disappearing, and Matt Booth trying his best to clean up after that (with the help of Stewardship SIG). But we're all busy folks and sometimes we can handle that new package load and sometimes we can't. And yes, you do a lot of great work in other places too. I thank you for that the few times I need to touch Java on non-Linux platforms. :-) Keep up the good work, - Alex > > > > -- > Stephen J Smoogen. > _______________________________________________ > devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Fedora Code of Conduct: > https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: > https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/project/code-of-conduct/ List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
