On 17. 12. 19 3:54, Neal Gompa wrote:
On Mon, Dec 16, 2019 at 9:37 PM Kevin Kofler <kevin.kofler@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Adam Williamson wrote:
BTW, there is another point here which you may not appreciate: Fedora
and Debian aren't really in competition. Fedora does not see its job as
being to Conquer The World and have everyone run Fedora. Fedora is
targeted at particular purposes and particular audiences. If a given
feature isn't actually driving Fedora's mission forward in any way,
it's reasonable to consider not having it any more, or at least not
making it a core part of the distribution and subject to blocking
requirements and so on. There comes a point at which we don't need to
support Python 2 for the people and use cases at which Fedora is aimed.
Will there still be people who need Python 2 for *something* at this
point? Probably! But, just as you point out, if so, they can get it
somewhere else.
Someone using Debian instead of Fedora because they need Python 2 isn't
necessarily a *problem* for Fedora. It's only a problem if it would've
served Fedora's goals and purposes for that person to be using Fedora.
If what they do isn't really a part of Fedora's goals...why should we
worry about them using Debian? Debian is a fine distribution. Nothing
wrong with it.
To put it another way...Debian and Fedora have different purposes and
different goals. Us dropping Python 2 earlier than Debian do is *things
working the right way*. We (arguably) do more than Debian to drive the
adoption and stabilization of new technologies - new stuff tends to
show up in Fedora earlier than it shows up in Debian. Debian (arguably)
does more than we do to provide long-term support for older software
and support for alternate architectures. This is a *good* thing. It's
an ecosystem that helps everyone.
Except that this argument does not match actual facts. Debian is actually
pretty aggressive at dropping legacy libraries. Debian has dropped Qt 3
several years ago and has already started the process of dropping Qt 4. We
still support these and even kdelibs 3 and 4 in Fedora (mostly because I am
keeping these alive – it turns out that this is actually very little work:
no new upstream releases to care about, just occasionally an FTBFS fix or a
security fix to backport).
The fact that even Debian is not trying to kick out Python 2 yet shows that
it is way too early to even consider it. Fedora is the only distribution
insane enough to do such a radical move with draconian enforcement, even
over the heads of the maintainers of packages depending on Python 2. (We now
need explicit permission to depend on a package, a completely unprecedented
and ridiculous move.)
You've been saying this a lot lately, and this isn't actually backed
up by reality.
Debian *is* dropping Python 2 support. As of right now, they are
working on transitioning to making providing Python 2 packages as
a bug of serious severity. This means that packages in unstable providing
Python 2 modules will no longer automatically transition to testing
and need exceptions to do so. In addition, there's discussion underway
to make it rc-blocking as well, meaning that packages may not be able
to transition into testing *without* removing Python 2 support
*first*.
While not all of this is implemented just yet in Debian (everything
moves glacially slow there...), it *is* happening. Debian definitely
does not want to make another release with Python 2 in the
distribution. Ubuntu has already decided to filter out all Python 2
packages from Ubuntu 20.04 LTS, so it's not going to be there either.
And you know what? This was all made possible by Fedora's work over
the last several releases to port lots of software to Python 3,
aggressively migrate to Python 3 by default, and now finally dropping
Python 2 stuff over the last three releases.
We may keep the python27 interpreter package for a while, but I don't
expect us to keep much beyond that.
Thank You Neal, I was about to say pretty much the same but I could have not
done it better.
--
Miro Hrončok
--
Phone: +420777974800
IRC: mhroncok
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