On 9/21/19 7:51 PM, Neal Gompa wrote:
On Sat, Sep 21, 2019 at 8:33 PM Ty Young <youngty1997@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I'll just cut to the chase.
About 2-3 months ago I filed a bug report that overclocking on Nvidia hardware wasn't working on Fedora. I observed this bug while trying out Fedora Silverblue 30's release but not in beta. I then later sent an email about this issue wherein Nvidia was immediately blamed for the bug despite this not being an issue on any other Linux distro. I was then asked to file a bug report and had provider information, which I did by doing multiple reinstalls of Silverblue/Workstation.
2-3 months ago by and the bug report has been closed because I didn't and couldn't do a deep level analysis. I don't use Fedora, I use Arch Linux. This isn't my distro and I'm not the one that broke it to begin with. The only reason I was even trying it out is because I really like the whole immutable filesystem concept and was hoping that the bug and issues with it would be ironed out and that I could switch to it if Arch decided to take a dump.
Sadly the issues weren't last time I checked about a month ago. Silverblue repos are often out of sync with the rest of Fedora resulting in upgrades failing. You have to manually cleanup upgrade meta cache to get upgrades to work correctly(rpm-ostree cleanup -m). Fedora update servers in general are unstable and unreliable as hell, sometimes returning HTTP error codes or just being offline. Gnome Software doesn't display software correctly on the front page. There still is no way to add Flatpak external disks via Gnome-Settings as of 3.34. You can't use Rawhide with Nvidia drivers because of debug kernel. There is a lack of software compared to other Linux distros like Ubuntu or Arch(no Vivaldi!?!?). Fedora developers tend to be hostile towards proprietary software. etc.
No, Red Hat. Fedora Silverblue isn't easy to use.
No one is saying Silverblue is easy to use yet.
There was an article/blog post on Red Hat's website saying it was not
long ago. Maybe you didn't see it?
Most of us know that
Silverblue has plenty of warts and needs a ton of refinement to be
useful for people beyond people who live in containers (a small group
of people that matters a lot to Red Hat).
The immutable filesystem offers an easy to use recovery mechanism and
fixes the live system update problem. Those are some real big benefits
IMO. Flatpak is still a major issue however...
We still offer Workstation. Just use that. :)
The unreliable update servers affect Workstation too. Again, upgrades on
workstation take forever. Silverblue is much faster.
...but I digress... again.
...but I digress...
I got the email and decided to check the nvidia-settings repo on Github[1]. Apparently, Someone has filed a bug report about overclocking on rootless X. org servers doesn't work[2]. I then downloaded Fedora Workstation and installed the Nvidia driver and checked which user the X. org server was running under.
Mini rant: By the way, update your damn installer images. Users shouldn't have to install 400MB of updates after they just install the distro. The installer image has Firefox 66 on it still! That's really freaking stupid. On my 5400RPM drive it takes a half hour to install all of that crap, which is longer than installing the distro itself or updating under Silverblue!
Yep, X. Org **ISN"T** running under root. Overclocking doesn't work either, same as before.
So I then tried making X. Org run as root using the Arch Wiki's guide[3] and verified that I was now running as root.
I was... and overclocking is now working.
...seriously? You make a abrupt change to Fedora 30 literally right before it was released, breaking overclocking applications such as my own AND Nvidia's own software, and then blame Nvidia for your own screwup? Really?
Fedora and other distributions have been working on rootless Xorg
since 2013. We've had it in place since at least 2015. This change was
made way back in Fedora 24.
So problem found. It was a problem in Fedora all along, like I said from nearly the beginning. Fix problems that **YOU** make instead of blaming Nvidia next time.
This is Nvidia's fault. It was hidden from you because sometimes the
packaging for the proprietary Nvidia driver has forced non-rootless
Xorg. I guess that's no longer the case, oh well. Talk to the packager
for the Nvidia driver, or better yet, talk to Nvidia to get them to
support rootless Xorg properly.
Really? It's Nvidia's fault that noone can agree on anything and keep
fragmenting the ecosystem in incredibly stupid ways?
Linus Torvalds has a policy of not breaking userspace, so why is it that
the same core philosophy isn't being applied downstream? Why do Fedora,
Ubuntu, Arch, etc keep deviating from some resemblance of a standard,
making developing software for Linux nearly impossible unless you
package specifically for that Linux distro(Fedora in this case)?
In this case it's some security boogeyman but there are plenty of cases
where it's just done " just because".
/media used to be where media was mounted. Now it's /run/media and some
distros just system link /media to /run/media while others like Arch
Linux don't do it at all.
Similarly libraries in Linux are located in arbitrary locations. In
Fedora a library I need is located in /usr/lib64. In Arch it's /usr/lib.
In ubuntu it's /usr/lib/86x-64_gnu_pc(or whatever). Why?
How the actual hell can anyone depend on anything? Howl can can anyone
support all the insane ways things are done differently?
Flatpak? Most distos won't support it and the DE integration isn't
great. Not every application is or can be put into a container. Drivers
sure as hell can't.
Snaps? Basically only supported and used on Ubuntu.
Please, if there is some magical way to ensure comparability with every
stupid thing distro developers do, i'd love to hear it. I'm having
issues with ensuring comparability as well(see above).
Ironically Red Hat, Fedora, and Gnome is often accused of the horrible
crime of trying to unify the Linux desktop but in actuality it seems
like it's just as bad as the rest of them.
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