On 1/30/19 2:52 PM, Stephen John Smoogen wrote:
On Wed, 30 Jan 2019 at 07:11, Matthew Miller <mattdm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:mattdm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:On Wed, Jan 30, 2019 at 11:49:55AM +0100, Vít Ondruch wrote: > > 1) Move System-Wide and Self-Contained proposal deadlines to be the > > same date and allow FESCO/etc determine if the proposal needs to be > > moved to SW or SC then? > This split between SW and SC was artificial since the beginning and I'd > be happy if we dropped it. Well, sure, it's a process we made up. In that sense, _everything_ is artificial when you get right down to it. The difference really is supposed to be that self-contained changes are "FYI" advertisements to the rest of the community and valuable for release notes, talking points, and other docs -- they don't really need approval (except when they actually exceed that scope). System-wide changes need coordination and greater communication, which is why they are supposed to be earlier. We could make self-contained changes due earlier and go through the same greater review process, but then we're gonna get a lot more "ugh Fedora is so process-heavy and bureaucratic" and people just not doing it at all.The problem is that people are not really seeing what a 'self-contained' change is and to entirely detail out what it means.. we are also a process-heavy and bureaucratic system. I can see why changing bash or removing yum both look like they are self-contained to the maintainers. I also can see why a lot of people can feel like this was a game to sneak in a change because to them it is clearly not self-contained. I can finally see that we are going to deal with this every release with more and more band-aids.
Since this clearly isn't working as it is, how about just taking the decision between self-contained and system-wide away from the maintainer? The thing is, the maintainer doesn't always see or even know the bigger picture. And because us humans are lazy, we're occasionally tempted to try sneak something in via an easier route because "such a small thing really can't break anything". Everybody's been there at one point or the other.
So basically: treat all changes as system-wide by default with a single proposal deadline, but if the review process discovers that a change truly is a self-contained one then it can be "downgraded" to self-contained and allow later submission into the distro. Defaulting to system-wide should also take away feeling of gaming the system.
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