On Wed, Nov 21, 2018 at 3:37 PM Jonathan Dieter <jdieter@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > On Wed, 2018-11-21 at 11:31 -0500, Colin Walters wrote: > > After having introduced a new format (OSTree) into the ecosystem here, > > as well as working a lot on the Docker/OCI ecosystem, one thing I want > > to emphasize is: > > > > A lot of Red Hat's customers don't connect their systems to the Internet, > > they want easy offline mirroring. OSTree supports that, and it's > > also possible to do with OCI images of course. > > > > But, a lot organizations use e.g. https://jfrog.com/artifactory/ > > which today doesn't support OSTree (it does support RPM and Docker/OCI). > > So any format break for RPM wouldn't be usable until Artifactory gains > > support for it. And even after that happened you'd have in some > > places a large lag time for it to be deployed. > > > > In general, any data format break is going to impose a lot higher > > costs than you might imagine. > > Thanks for bringing up these points. You are undoubtedly correct that > there's an unknown cost associated with these changes, but hopefully > the cost will become a little clearer once we have a POC. I'm concerned that this will effectively render EL RPM unable to handle any Fedora RPMs at all. That's both a practical concern, as many people develop Fedora using EL and vice versa, and also a broader ecosystem concern. I would very much like for all of our distributions to be able to more easily operate together, and this effectively forks Fedora off into it's own space yet again. Have we really looked at the wider scope of what a format change like this would do in the context of some of the larger picture things we're working on with lifecycle and cross-distro collaboration efforts? I agree this would be better than delta RPMs when looking at that *specific* usecase, but improving that (even with compose time benefits) by doing a format change seems to be inflicting a very high cost for what is an important but relatively small usecase. josh > > (Also on this topic, I should note that the OSTree data format cleanly > > fixes a lot of the issues being discussed here; it has deltas, and also > > doesn't make the mistake of checksumming compressed data, > > when performing updates only changed files are rewritten, not to mention > > a whole transactional update system, etc.) > > Yep. I've experimented with OSTree and love the concepts behind it. I > don't think we're quite ready to ditch the classic rpm systems yet, > though. > > Jonathan > _______________________________________________ > devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html > List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines > List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
