On Thu, May 31, 2018 at 2:54 PM, Jason L Tibbitts III <tibbs@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>>>> "CM" == Chris Murphy <lists@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> writes: > > CM> I think it's to avoid ambiguity. F8 on one of my computers tells the > CM> firmware to do a firmware update or some such thing, so I'm going to > CM> press F8 and maybe get a firmware update menu, or maybe I'll get a > CM> GRUB menu, depending on my timing. And I think such ambiguity will > CM> inevitably lead to bad UI/UX. > > Unfortunately anything you pick will be ambiguous. Subjective yes. But not ambiguous. the "g" key would not be ambiguous. It would be subjective. And I doubt it conflicts with anything else. But it is a bit obscure decoder ring. I'm willing to bet the user tries shift, Esc and space bar since in various eras of GRUB all of those have been trigger keys to reveal a hidden menu. >The change under > discussion mentions adding F8 to the set of keys checked, so that would > already conflict for you (and already conflicts with Windows, which > suggests to me that this isn't really much of a conflict). I have a > number of machines which use 'Esc' as the key to enter the BIOS, so that > conflicts with grub now but somehow it has never even occurred to me > that any conflict exists. > > Plus, there's an upside: if you're hammering F11 or F8 or F12 or Esc or > whatever to try and get into the BIOS, and you miss it, then at least > you stop in grub instead of going straight into the OS. Ick. > > CM> This is one of those areas were Apple's UX is vastly superior, the > CM> keyboard shortcuts for firmware and bootloader have been > CM> standardized for a very long time - at least 20 years, across > CM> multiple archs and hardware generations and development teams. > > If you're going to select just a particular hardware/software > combination like that, then you could say the same for a number of > individual laptop or motherboard manufacturers when combined with > Windows. Taken as a whole there is no standardization across the > industry. It is an imperfect analogy with bias. Nevertheless, even within Dell, HP or Intel, you get a new product manager, a new firmware OEM, you eventually get different shortcuts. There's hardly any company in the tech industry with as much institutional momentum like Apple when it comes to the user experience - which is one of the reasons why users of Apple products flip their shit beyond imagination when things change. And good for them for doing so. These shortcuts as a UI element have effectively become user domain, even though they are hidden. They aren't documented within the OS help system, let alone during boot. https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201255 > Anyway, I don't really care what gets chosen here, but I sure would like > the option to actually configure what keys grub watches instead of just > having it be 'Esc' and maybe patched to include 'F8'. Grub seems to be > so flexible so it seems odd that this bit is hardcoded. That's a good point. -- Chris Murphy _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Fedora Code of Conduct: https://getfedora.org/code-of-conduct.html List Guidelines: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines List Archives: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx/message/4MNXOAZI5WUREQFFRAGZICKXLTWCNAW7/
