On Thu, 2018-03-29 at 15:57 +0000, Stephen Gallagher wrote: > On Thu, Mar 29, 2018 at 10:12 AM Kevin Kofler <kevin.kofler@xxxxxxxxx> > wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > we did more debugging on #fedora-kde (thanks in particular to lupinix) and > > we found what seems to be the primary source of the bloat: CJK fonts! > > > > CJK fonts are by far the largest of all fonts due to the huge number of > > characters used in those languages. > > > > Up to Fedora 26, Fedora shipped 4 CJK fonts: > > <packagereq > > type="default">adobe-source-han-sans-cn-fonts</packagereq> > > <packagereq > > type="default">adobe-source-han-sans-tw-fonts</packagereq> > > <packagereq type="default">naver-nanum-gothic-fonts</packagereq> > > <packagereq type="default">vlgothic-fonts</packagereq> > > The KDE and LXQt Spins actually opted to blacklist these fonts in their > > kickstart, and ship one compact CJK font instead: wqy-microhei-fonts. > > > > In Fedora 27, this Change: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/ChineseSerifFonts > > added 2 additional fonts (for a total of 6): > > <packagereq > > type="default">adobe-source-han-serif-cn-fonts</packagereq> > > <packagereq > > type="default">adobe-source-han-serif-tw-fonts</packagereq> > > which were unfortunately missing from the blacklist: > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1530006 > > already increasing the size of the image. > > > > But now in Fedora 28, after: > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/JPDefaultFontsToNoto > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/KRDefaultFontsToNoto > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/ChineseDefaultFontsToNoto > > we actually ship a whopping 12 CJK fonts: > > <packagereq type="default">google-noto-sans-jp-fonts</packagereq> > > <packagereq type="default">google-noto-sans-kr-fonts</packagereq> > > <packagereq > > type="default">google-noto-sans-mono-cjk-jp-fonts</packagereq> > > <packagereq > > type="default">google-noto-sans-mono-cjk-kr-fonts</packagereq> > > <packagereq > > type="default">google-noto-sans-mono-cjk-sc-fonts</packagereq> > > <packagereq > > type="default">google-noto-sans-mono-cjk-tc-fonts</packagereq> > > <packagereq type="default">google-noto-sans-sc-fonts</packagereq> > > <packagereq type="default">google-noto-sans-tc-fonts</packagereq> > > <packagereq type="default">google-noto-serif-jp-fonts</packagereq> > > <packagereq type="default">google-noto-serif-kr-fonts</packagereq> > > <packagereq type="default">google-noto-serif-sc-fonts</packagereq> > > <packagereq type="default">google-noto-serif-tc-fonts</packagereq> > > none of which are blacklisted in the Spins! According to lupinix, these > > amount to a download size (and thus an xz-compressed size, which is also > > the > > compression algorithm used for the live images) of 364 MiB! > > > > The fix is to update the blacklists in the KDE and LXQt spin kickstarts, as > > per the discussion under: > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1530006 > > IMHO, this needs to be implemented, urgently. > > > > But I think we also need to generally consider whether it makes sense to > > force 3 font variants for each CJK language on all users worldwide, and > > whether there are smaller fonts that could be used. (E.g., > > wqy-microhei-fonts is very effective, but unfortunately it only covers > > Simplified Chinese and the syllabic parts of Japanese and Korean, not the > > Traditional Chinese, Japanese or Korean renderings of the CJK Unified > > Ideographs.) > > > > > > Kevin, thanks for the investigation and the detailed analysis. Great work > tracking this down! > > I think our font strategy is a bit complicated, because we do strive to be > an international distribution, but I feel like there must be better ways to > accomplish this goal than to simply install all possible fonts by default. Well, I don't think this really is "all possible fonts". Just looking at the list, one obvious improvement is that there now appear to be sans, serif, and monospace fonts, whereas before there was only sans. Would we ship images without serif and monospace fonts for Latin? For those wondering what the other factors here are: 'jp' is Japanese, 'kr' is Korean, 'sc' is Simplified Chinese and 'tc' is Traditional Chinese. We could go more into the details on the relationships between them and why we might need different fonts for them all, but I think what we really ought to do is go to the actual experts here - the g11n teams, and specifically CJK specialists on those teams - explain the problem, and see what they recommend as the best way forward to provide an acceptable experience for CJK users of our images while keeping sizes reasonable. > I know that for GNOME at least, there's some PackageKit integration that > allows users to be prompted to install fonts as-needed (though it also > seems to trigger whenever I accidentally `cat` a binary file in the > terminal :-) ). Perhaps we can look into finding a desktop-agnostic way of > doing this and then limit our installed fonts to only a few minimal ones > based on the language selected in Anaconda? The obvious problem here is *live* images, though. I'd say we want the live environment to be practical for CJK users without them having to do large downloads and installs that, in the live environment, will eat up RAM... -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Twitter: AdamW_Fedora | XMPP: adamw AT happyassassin . net http://www.happyassassin.net _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
