=================================== #fedora-meeting: FESCO (2018-03-23) =================================== Meeting started by tyll at 15:00:34 UTC. The full logs are available at https://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2018-03-23/fesco.2018-03-23-15.00.log.html Meeting summary --------------- * init process (tyll, 15:01:25) * #1861 F28 Changes not in ON_QA status (<100% completed) (tyll, 15:03:19) * Kerberos in Python modernization (tyll, 15:03:58) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/kerberos-in-python-modernization (tyll, 15:04:02) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1537249 (tyll, 15:04:05) * ACTION: zbyszek to reach out to the change owner (zbyszek, 15:05:15) * nothing happened since last meeting, will discuss it again next meeting (tyll, 15:05:53) * Add-On Modularity (tyll, 15:07:25) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/F28AddonModularity (tyll, 15:07:29) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1537253 (tyll, 15:07:32) * Replace glibc's libcrypt with libxcrypt (tyll, 15:12:11) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Replace_glibc_libcrypt_with_libxcrypt (tyll, 15:12:16) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1537261 (tyll, 15:12:21) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1556132 (zbyszek, 15:16:29) * ACTION: bowlofeggs will notify QA that ppp might be a beta blocker (tyll, 15:49:53) * ACTION: bowlofeggs will notify QA about https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1556132 (bowlofeggs, 15:49:54) * ACTION: msekleta will test pppoe with a VM setup (tyll, 15:50:08) * AGREED: make it a final blocker and everyone will try to test it to see if it breaks PPPoE/3g devices (+7, 0, -0) (tyll, 15:54:03) * ACTION: bowlofeggs will mark it as a final blocker (bowlofeggs, 15:57:35) * Atomic, Cloud and Container images for s390x (tyll, 15:57:54) * LINK: https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Atomic_Cloud_and_Docker_images_for_s390x (tyll, 15:58:01) * LINK: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1547235 (tyll, 15:58:06) * change can be tested now (tyll, 16:02:15) * #1845 389-ds-base and freeipa on 32 bit arches (tyll, 16:02:21) * LINK: https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1845 (tyll, 16:02:36) * bowlofeggs requested the change proposal in https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1530832#c8 (tyll, 16:08:12) * ACTION: bowlofeggs will make sure a change is written NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS (bowlofeggs, 16:23:25) * ACTION: bowlofeggs will ask them again for a change page and write one for himself if the maintainers do not provide one (tyll, 16:23:36) * #1820 Adjust/Drop/Document batched updates policy (tyll, 16:24:21) * LINK: https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1820 (tyll, 16:24:37) * LINK: https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/test@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx/thread/6CWTD5LGOPST5NP3YRNXOKNY5NEF7WR6/ (bowlofeggs, 16:29:06) * ACTION: zbyszek to generate a wiki page with arguments and considerations, ask for feedback (zbyszek, 16:45:26) * AGREED: Ask bodhi developers to try to "suspend" or "bypass" batching in the short term, continue discussion (+5, 1, -0) (tyll, 16:47:09) * #1776 F28 System Wide Change: Deprecate TCP wrappers (tyll, 16:47:32) * LINK: https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1776 (tyll, 16:47:39) * AGREED: FESCo authorizes use of pp privileges to apply patches and do rebuils for those packages where the change is stalled (+7, 0, -0) (tyll, 16:56:06) * ACTION: till write use his PP powers to merge tcp wrapper patches (tyll, 16:56:48) * Next week's chair (tyll, 16:56:52) * next meeting will be on 2018-04-06 due to public holidays (tyll, 16:58:20) * ACTION: zbyszek will chair next meeting (tyll, 16:58:52) * Open Floor (tyll, 16:58:57) * ACTION: sgallagh will chair instead of zbyszek (tyll, 16:59:30) Meeting ended at 17:04:41 UTC. Action Items ------------ * zbyszek to reach out to the change owner * bowlofeggs will notify QA that ppp might be a beta blocker * bowlofeggs will notify QA about https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1556132 * msekleta will test pppoe with a VM setup * bowlofeggs will mark it as a final blocker * bowlofeggs will make sure a change is written NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS * bowlofeggs will ask them again for a change page and write one for himself if the maintainers do not provide one * zbyszek to generate a wiki page with arguments and considerations, ask for feedback * till write use his PP powers to merge tcp wrapper patches * zbyszek will chair next meeting * sgallagh will chair instead of zbyszek Action Items, by person ----------------------- * bowlofeggs * bowlofeggs will notify QA that ppp might be a beta blocker * bowlofeggs will notify QA about https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1556132 * bowlofeggs will mark it as a final blocker * bowlofeggs will make sure a change is written NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS * bowlofeggs will ask them again for a change page and write one for himself if the maintainers do not provide one * msekleta * msekleta will test pppoe with a VM setup * sgallagh * sgallagh will chair instead of zbyszek * zbyszek * zbyszek to reach out to the change owner * zbyszek to generate a wiki page with arguments and considerations, ask for feedback * zbyszek will chair next meeting * sgallagh will chair instead of zbyszek * **UNASSIGNED** * till write use his PP powers to merge tcp wrapper patches People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * bowlofeggs (138) * tyll (117) * zbyszek (88) * sgallagh (74) * nirik (55) * jsmith (32) * dgilmore (21) * zodbot (20) * maxamillion (15) * puiterwijk (14) * msekleta (10) * kparal (7) * nb (1) * jwb (1) Generated by `MeetBot`_ 0.1.4 .. _`MeetBot`: http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot 15:00:34 <tyll> #startmeeting FESCO (2018-03-23) 15:00:34 <zodbot> Meeting started Fri Mar 23 15:00:34 2018 UTC. The chair is tyll. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 15:00:34 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 15:00:34 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco_(2018-03-23)' 15:00:37 <zbyszek> .hello2 15:00:38 <zodbot> zbyszek: zbyszek 'Zbigniew Jędrzejewski-Szmek' <zbyszek@xxxxxxxxx> 15:00:38 <bowlofeggs> .hello2 15:00:41 <zodbot> bowlofeggs: bowlofeggs 'Randy Barlow' <rbarlow@xxxxxxxxxx> 15:01:01 <tyll> :D axamillion dgilmore nirik jsmith sgallagh bowlofeggs tyll jwb zbyszek 15:01:10 <jsmith> .hello2 15:01:11 <zodbot> jsmith: jsmith 'Jared Smith' <jsmith.fedora@xxxxxxxxx> 15:01:11 <tyll> #chair maxamillion dgilmore nirik jsmith sgallagh bowlofeggs tyll jwb zbyszek 15:01:11 <zodbot> Current chairs: bowlofeggs dgilmore jsmith jwb maxamillion nirik sgallagh tyll zbyszek 15:01:12 <nirik> morning 15:01:18 <tyll> #meetingname fesco 15:01:18 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco' 15:01:25 <tyll> #topic init process 15:01:26 <sgallagh> .hello2 15:01:27 <zodbot> sgallagh: sgallagh 'Stephen Gallagher' <sgallagh@xxxxxxxxxx> 15:01:31 <tyll> .hello till 15:01:32 <zodbot> tyll: till 'Till Maas' <opensource@xxxxxxxxx> 15:02:33 <tyll> I count 6 members, so we have quorum 15:02:52 <jwb> hi 15:03:07 <tyll> now 7 :-) 15:03:12 <jsmith> w00t! 15:03:15 <tyll> 16:01:19 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco' A status (<100% completed) 15:03:19 <tyll> #topic #1861 F28 Changes not in ON_QA status (<100% completed) 15:03:36 <tyll> .fesco 1861 15:03:38 <zodbot> tyll: Issue #1861: F28 Changes not in ON_QA status (<100% completed) - fesco - Pagure - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1861 15:03:52 <zbyszek> Can we discuss them one by one? 15:03:54 <tyll> there are only issues from last meeting 15:03:58 <tyll> #topic Kerberos in Python modernization 15:04:02 <tyll> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/kerberos-in-python-modernization 15:04:05 <tyll> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1537249 15:04:09 <tyll> zbyszek: sure 15:04:27 <zbyszek> We were supposed to ask the maintainer to update the page, but nothing happened there 15:04:32 <tyll> AGREED: (+1:6,+0:0,-1:0) - ask change owner to update change with what will be shipped in f28 and file any later changes in an F29 change request 15:04:43 <tyll> yes, this was the last item ^ 15:04:48 <tyll> last decission 15:04:56 <tyll> does someone volunteer to ask this time? 15:05:01 <zbyszek> I will. 15:05:04 <jsmith> Did someone actually reach out to the change owner? 15:05:14 <jsmith> Thanks zbyszek 15:05:15 <zbyszek> #action zbyszek to reach out to the change owner 15:05:53 <tyll> #info nothing happened since last meeting, will discuss it again next meeting 15:05:59 <tyll> any objections? 15:06:02 <bowlofeggs> +1 15:06:12 <sgallagh> ack 15:06:16 <jsmith> ACK 15:06:23 <nirik> ack 15:06:45 <zbyszek> ack 15:07:20 <tyll> ok, next subitem 15:07:25 <tyll> #topic Add-On Modularity 15:07:29 <tyll> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/F28AddonModularity 15:07:32 <tyll> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1537253 15:07:50 <zbyszek> sgallagh? 15:07:52 <bowlofeggs> bodhi is now ready for f28 modularity afaik 15:07:56 <tyll> last meeting: AGREED: The critieria posted in comments 6 and 7 at https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1537253 are required for modularity (+8, 0, -0) 15:07:57 <tyll> @sgallagh will inform the QA team 15:07:58 <nirik> I think we are in a state where everything can at least be tested. ;) 15:08:04 <jsmith> From what (little) I understand, the modularity stuff is coming along and pretty much ready to go 15:08:14 <sgallagh> Yes, we're in much better shape 15:09:01 <sgallagh> As far as I know, we are meeting all of the blocking criteria we established 15:09:13 <sgallagh> I'm going to continue to put it through it's paces before Go/No-Go next week 15:09:29 <zbyszek> Cool. 15:09:45 <bowlofeggs> should the ticket be moved to ON_QA then? 15:09:55 <zbyszek> It is already. 15:09:56 <sgallagh> bowlofeggs: it already is 15:10:16 <bowlofeggs> ah then we don't really need to discuss it here 15:10:27 <bowlofeggs> since the fesco ticket is about tickets not on ON_QA :) 15:10:31 <zbyszek> Yeah, seems to be on track for beta. 15:11:33 <jsmith> +1 to moving on 15:12:09 <tyll> ok, next item: 15:12:11 <tyll> #topic Replace glibc's libcrypt with libxcrypt 15:12:16 <tyll> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Replace_glibc_libcrypt_with_libxcrypt 15:12:21 <tyll> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1537261 15:12:30 <zbyszek> We're still waiting for ppp to be updated. 15:12:36 <zbyszek> .whoowns2 ppp 15:12:37 <zodbot> zbyszek: User: msekleta, Name: Michal Sekletar, email: msekleta@xxxxxxxxxx, Creation: 2011-08-02, IRC Nick: msekleta, Timezone: Europe/Prague, Locale: en, GPG key ID: , Status: active 15:12:40 <zodbot> zbyszek: Approved Groups: @gitchkconfig qa-beaker-user qa-automation-shell packager fedorabugs cla_fpca cla_done gitinitscripts 15:13:02 * sgallagh is kind of sad that PPP is still a thing in 2018 15:13:16 <bowlofeggs> this one is also ON_QA 15:13:17 <tyll> info from last meeting: Appears to be mostly done. 15:13:25 <nirik> well, since it's broken... perhaps not. ;) 15:14:26 <bowlofeggs> true 15:14:41 <bowlofeggs> hmm, it's been ~1 week since this BZ was filed 15:14:42 <tyll> isn't it still needed for 3G/4G data cards? 15:14:47 <bowlofeggs> and porting code might not be quick 15:15:06 <sgallagh> PPP is not a blocking package, so far as I know. I'm okay with letting the maintainers sort this out. 15:15:14 <sgallagh> Not worth trying to revert this change over it 15:15:35 <bowlofeggs> don't some VPNs use it too? 15:15:36 <msekleta> hi! 15:15:54 <bowlofeggs> msekleta: greetings! what can you tell us about ppp? 15:16:00 <nirik> or ppoe 15:16:29 <zbyszek> #link https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1556132 15:17:38 <msekleta> Honestly, I don't do much on ppp these days 15:18:04 <msekleta> RHEL/CentOS maint. is Jaroslav Skarvada and we agreed that he will be taking care of Fedora as well 15:18:36 <bowlofeggs> msekleta: can you tell us whether ppp is used for things that might be considered important? 15:19:06 <maxamillion> .hello2 15:19:09 <zodbot> maxamillion: maxamillion 'Adam Miller' <maxamillion@xxxxxxxxx> 15:19:12 <maxamillion> sorry I'm late, had physical therapy 15:19:35 <bowlofeggs> now i don't get to +2 15:20:01 <tyll> maxamillion: you did not miss much 15:20:29 <msekleta> bowlofeggs, there are use cases for it, but it is becoming less and less important over time 15:20:42 <msekleta> bowlofeggs, not sure how can I quantify that 15:21:06 <bowlofeggs> cool. so you might not consider it to be a blocker if it doesn't make it into f28? 15:21:24 <maxamillion> bowlofeggs: :) 15:21:42 <maxamillion> bowlofeggs: you just keep doing +2's and I'll yell if I disagree ... could be an interesting social experiment ;) 15:22:35 <zbyszek> $ dnf repoquery --whatrequires ppp --alldeps --qf '%{name}' 15:22:37 <zbyszek> NetworkManager-fortisslvpn 15:22:37 <zbyszek> NetworkManager-l2tp 15:22:37 <zbyszek> NetworkManager-ppp 15:22:38 <zbyszek> NetworkManager-pptp 15:22:40 <zbyszek> NetworkManager-sstp 15:22:42 <zbyszek> glpi 15:22:45 <zbyszek> iipsrv 15:22:47 * dgilmore is here now 15:22:47 <zbyszek> kppp 15:22:50 <zbyszek> openfortivpn 15:22:52 <zbyszek> php-horde-horde 15:22:55 <zbyszek> ppp-devel 15:22:57 <zbyszek> pptp 15:23:00 <zbyszek> pptpd 15:23:02 <zbyszek> rp-pppoe 15:23:05 <zbyszek> sstp-client 15:23:07 <zbyszek> synce-connector 15:23:10 <zbyszek> wvdial 15:23:12 <zbyszek> xl2tpd 15:23:15 <zbyszek> wow, full house 15:23:30 <zbyszek> It looks like at least upgrade from F27 will be broken if ppp is not upgradeable, because of the dependency in NetworkManager. 15:23:38 <zbyszek> It looks like we _need_ to fix this. 15:23:43 <jsmith> Yeah :-/ 15:24:00 <bowlofeggs> and those packages might be dependencies for others, and so on 15:24:25 <dgilmore> it is a core piece of most systems 15:24:39 <zbyszek> msekleta: can you reach out to Jaroslav and look at #1556132? If it's not fixable, we'll need to find some work-around. 15:25:25 <bowlofeggs> could we ask the change maintainer to bring libcrypt back while *also* having libxcrypt? i.e., are they mutually exclusive? 15:25:33 <bowlofeggs> and then they can try to get rid of libcrypt for f29? 15:25:49 <zbyszek> I think they are mutually exclusive. 15:25:53 <nirik> I think that would be a massive amount of work... 15:25:58 <zbyszek> Also. 15:26:17 <bowlofeggs> ok 15:26:18 <msekleta> zbyszek, yes, I will talk to him 15:26:31 <zbyszek> Thanks. 15:26:35 <bowlofeggs> in that case, shoudl fesco declare this a blocker? 15:26:46 <bowlofeggs> and if so, a beta or final blocker? 15:26:56 <bowlofeggs> seems like a lot of stuff depends on it, so beta might be appropriate 15:27:17 <bowlofeggs> does anybody have a sense of how much work we are asking for from the ppp maintainer? 15:28:08 <tyll> the bug report only mentions DES so it seems to be one encryption routine 15:28:35 <bowlofeggs> ok so maybe not so bad 15:29:25 * jsmith is incline to call it a blocker 15:29:29 <jsmith> inclined, that is 15:29:31 <bowlofeggs> i lean towards beta blocker, but that also creates a high likelyhood that the beta won't be ready next week 15:30:03 <nirik> we may be able to ask the change owner to look too? perhaps they can help port. 15:30:20 <sgallagh> I'd prefer not to block *beta* on this 15:30:43 <sgallagh> It hasn't caused any of our usual tests to fail. 15:30:44 <maxamillion> bowlofeggs: agreed 15:30:50 <zbyszek> sgallagh: +1 15:31:01 <sgallagh> *some* version of PPP is available on F28; I don't know for sure if it works though 15:31:06 <sgallagh> ppp-2.4.7-14.fc28.x86_64 15:31:09 <bowlofeggs> i wouldn't oppose it being a final non-beta blocker, but i would prefer beta blocker 15:31:24 <nirik> yeah, that one says it's ported to openssl 1.1 15:31:34 <nirik> so I am not sure what broke after that 15:31:51 <zbyszek> It seems that it's just a few lines in pppd/pppcrypt.c, so somebody who knows the code should be able to fix it relatively quickly. 15:31:55 <bowlofeggs> i would expect that version to have some broken linking 15:32:05 <bowlofeggs> since it was built on the old lib 15:32:38 <zbyszek> Oh, no, it's installable, but just FTBFS. 15:32:50 <bowlofeggs> installable doesn't mean it functions though 15:33:04 <bowlofeggs> if it references libcrypt code that doesn't exist 15:33:07 <zbyszek> No, the Change was backwards compatible in this way 15:33:14 <bowlofeggs> oh? 15:33:53 <bowlofeggs> i'm surprised that it would be runtime backwards compatible without being build time backwards compatible 15:33:56 <zbyszek> "On Linux-based systems, by default libxcrypt will be binary backward compatible with the libcrypt.so.1 shipped as part of the GNU C Library. This means that all existing binary executables linked against glibc's libcrypt should work unmodified with this library's libcrypt.so.1" 15:34:23 <tyll> FYI: we are discussing this item now for 20 minutes 15:34:34 <bowlofeggs> ah interesting 15:34:36 <bowlofeggs> yeah i see that now 15:34:41 <jsmith> Proposal: Make this a beta blocker 15:34:47 <sgallagh> Proposal: Ask QA to test whether PPP functionality has regressed in F28 15:35:01 <zbyszek> jsmith: -1, no need. 15:35:06 <jsmith> sgallagh: Is QA equipped to test this? 15:35:09 <sgallagh> adamw: ^^ 15:35:13 <sgallagh> kparal: ^^ 15:35:35 <bowlofeggs> how about we ask QA to tell us if they think this should be a beta blocker? 15:35:47 <maxamillion> bowlofeggs: +1 15:35:50 <tyll> bowlofeggs: +1 15:36:01 <zbyszek> I think that chances of ppp regressing are very low. It's only a matter of not being able to rebuild the package if needed. 15:36:02 <nirik> well, what critera does it meet? 15:36:03 <sgallagh> bowlofeggs: Then propose it for blocker consideration 15:36:14 <sgallagh> There's a whole group of people that discusses things like that. 15:36:20 <bowlofeggs> sure 15:36:23 * kparal doesn't know what PPP is 15:36:32 <bowlofeggs> i think that's a good way to handle this one 15:36:35 <nirik> If it's not fixed by final I think that might be cause for concern. 15:36:37 <sgallagh> nirik: Well, if it truly breaks dial-up PPP or PPPoE (DSL), then it will fail update criteria 15:36:41 <bowlofeggs> not being able to update it could be bad if there are CVEs 15:36:41 <dgilmore> kparal: its the software to make dialup connections 15:36:42 <nirik> sgallagh: sure. 15:36:52 <kparal> like, a modem? from 1990's? 15:36:56 <dgilmore> kparal: used by pppoe for ADSL 15:36:56 <nirik> sgallagh: well, it doesn't break updates... 15:36:59 <sgallagh> kparal: Or DSL 15:37:07 <bowlofeggs> DSL is still widely used 15:37:11 <kparal> we don't have any way to test that in our brno office 15:37:13 <sgallagh> nirik: The update criteria is a stand-in for network tests 15:37:21 <dgilmore> kparal: also used over bluetooth to mobile phones for tethering in some cases 15:37:22 <nirik> hum? 15:37:33 <dgilmore> kparal: my fiber connection uses it 15:37:36 <kparal> dgilmore: that could be tested, I guess 15:37:39 <kparal> over the phone 15:37:44 <sgallagh> nirik: It tests whether the system can reach the repos, download from them and apply updates 15:37:55 <sgallagh> If PPP is truly broken, network updates are impossible 15:38:12 <bowlofeggs> proposal: we submit this to be considered for blocker for monday's blocker meeting and let them decide 15:38:19 <sgallagh> bowlofeggs: +1 15:38:22 <dgilmore> sgallagh: in cases where you rely on using ppp to make a connection to the internet 15:38:22 <jsmith> bowlofeggs: +1 15:38:30 <kparal> bowlofeggs: +1 15:38:33 <dgilmore> +1 15:38:39 <sgallagh> dgilmore: Yes, I was referring to DSL/Dial-up 15:38:50 <dgilmore> sgallagh: being explict is better here 15:38:50 <nirik> sgallagh: I don't think that was intended to mean "any way to connect via network" 15:38:58 <zbyszek> -1, I think it's creating unnecessary work, since we have all the data we need to make a decision now. 15:38:59 <sgallagh> dgilmore: Agreed 15:39:02 <tyll> bowlofeggs: +1 15:39:51 <zbyszek> I'd just make this a final blocker now instead. 15:39:52 <bowlofeggs> i would also still +1 us saying it is a blocker here 15:39:52 <nirik> sure, +1 to propose it and get regular blocker votes. 15:40:06 <nirik> zbyszek: yeah, I can see the case for that 15:40:17 <sgallagh> I'm -1 as a Beta blocker without knowing whether it ACTUALLY impacts our users 15:40:27 <tyll> zbyszek: but do we know that it breaks pppoe as it is now? 15:40:35 <bowlofeggs> we don't know what is broken now 15:40:41 <bowlofeggs> other than building 15:41:02 * sgallagh will try to find a neighbor on DSL and test 15:41:03 <zbyszek> Well, if pppoe is broken (or anything else) that'd mean the whole change is busted. There has been no indication of that. 15:41:03 <tyll> therefore IMHO we should first figure out if it is still working 15:41:49 <bowlofeggs> filing it as a blocker proposal will allow QA to consider it and i think that's the best way to go 15:42:07 <dgilmore> I think we need to get someone to test it 15:42:22 <bowlofeggs> i think it def needs to build by final release, but QA should determine if there's a problem for beta or not imo 15:42:22 <dgilmore> kinda silly to file a bug saying maybe there is a bug here, we are not sure 15:43:00 <bowlofeggs> true, but are any of us equipped to test it? if so, sure 15:43:07 <bowlofeggs> i don't have a ppp connection to use to test 15:43:24 <bowlofeggs> and there are several types of such connections 15:43:27 <tyll> I can try with DSL 15:43:44 <dgilmore> I can possibly try 15:43:51 <bowlofeggs> i think looping in QA would be wise even if we don't know of a bug other than building 15:44:05 <bowlofeggs> they might just say "meh" and that's fine, but i think communicating it to them would be wise 15:44:08 <tyll> note sure if I have a SIM card to use for a 3G card 15:44:14 <dgilmore> when i switched to gigabit my connection went from pppoe to static 15:44:14 <sgallagh> Hmm, seems that all of my neighbors have switched to Fiber. Smart of them :-D 15:44:28 <dgilmore> I am not sure if using pppoe will work or not 15:44:42 <sgallagh> dgilmore: Do you happen to know which phones use PPPoE for tethering? 15:44:59 <dgilmore> sgallagh: No. 15:45:18 <dgilmore> sgallagh: a 3g data modem is typically using ppp also 15:45:26 <sgallagh> hmm 15:45:59 <bowlofeggs> we are agreed that this is at least a final blocker right? 15:46:12 <bowlofeggs> because you can't update it if you can't build it 15:46:19 <zbyszek> yes 15:46:43 <nirik> yeah. 15:46:48 <sgallagh> bowlofeggs: +1 15:47:02 <bowlofeggs> we do have enough votes (though non-unaimous) to just let the beta blocker meeting decide whether it's beta also or not 15:47:07 <dgilmore> sgallagh: I have an old laptop that I think I have a 3g modem in, and I have a t-mobile data only sim 15:47:13 <bowlofeggs> i say we declare it final blocker and let them decide if it's also beta blocker 15:47:14 <dgilmore> I may be able to test 15:47:19 <sgallagh> dgilmore: Thanks 15:47:27 <sgallagh> I just tried with my phone, but it's not PPPoE, apparently 15:47:41 <msekleta> Just, FYI, you don't really need to test this with phones or anything. pppoe can by easily tested with two VMs on a same ethernet network. 15:47:41 <bowlofeggs> we've also been on this topic a real long time 15:47:45 <tyll> propsal: Make it a final blocker and everyone tries to test it until Monday to see if it breaks PPPOE/3G devices? 15:47:48 <dgilmore> sgallagh: using bluetooth? 15:47:49 <bowlofeggs> we dont' haev to be unanimous all the time - it's ok 15:47:51 <sgallagh> dgilmore: Yes 15:47:58 <zbyszek> tyll: +1 15:48:02 <dgilmore> sgallagh: ppp over bluetooth may be old at this point 15:48:10 * sgallagh nods 15:48:21 <dgilmore> +1 tyll 15:48:30 <sgallagh> tyll: +1 15:48:32 <tyll> msekleta: can you test this with two VMs and report back? 15:48:33 <bowlofeggs> i still think we need to at least also bring it to QAs attention 15:48:45 <msekleta> tyll, sure 15:48:54 <tyll> msekleta: awesome, thank you 15:49:11 <msekleta> tyll, when do you what me to report on ppp status? 15:49:14 <sgallagh> I'll ping the Westford office and see if anyone has a 3G modem handy 15:49:25 <tyll> bowlofeggs: would you notify QA? 15:49:29 <bowlofeggs> tyll: sure 15:49:38 <tyll> msekleta: before the blocker meeting on Monday would be great 15:49:51 <msekleta> tyll, ok, I will test it over weekend 15:49:53 <tyll> #action bowlofeggs will notify QA that ppp might be a beta blocker 15:49:54 <bowlofeggs> #action bowlofeggs will notify QA about https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1556132 15:49:57 <bowlofeggs> haha 15:50:08 <tyll> #action msekleta will test pppoe with a VM setup 15:50:14 <tyll> bowlofeggs: double action :-D 15:50:44 <bowlofeggs> +1 to the current proposal 15:51:22 <tyll> nirik: ? maxamillion ? jsmith ? jwb ? 15:51:29 <nb> +1 15:51:40 <jsmith> +1 15:51:45 <nirik> +1 15:52:01 <maxamillion> +1 15:52:35 <bowlofeggs> note that we also agreed that this is a final blocker (though without a formal vote?) so should we go ahead and mark it as such? 15:52:57 <tyll> AGREED make it a final blocker and everyone will try to test it to see if it breaks PPPoE/3g devices 15:53:07 <tyll> AGREED make it a final blocker and everyone will try to test it to see if it breaks PPPoE/3g devices (+7, 0, -0) 15:53:45 <sgallagh> tyll: missing leading # 15:54:03 <tyll> #agree make it a final blocker and everyone will try to test it to see if it breaks PPPoE/3g devices (+7, 0, -0) 15:54:07 <tyll> sgallagh: thx 15:54:41 <tyll> bowlofeggs: will you mark it as a final blocker? 15:57:35 <bowlofeggs> #action bowlofeggs will mark it as a final blocker 15:57:44 <tyll> perfect, bowlofeggs++ 15:57:44 <zodbot> tyll: Karma for bowlofeggs changed to 15 (for the f27 release cycle): https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 15:57:54 <tyll> #topic Atomic, Cloud and Container images for s390x 15:58:01 <tyll> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Changes/Atomic_Cloud_and_Docker_images_for_s390x 15:58:06 <tyll> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1547235 15:58:06 <zbyszek> This was recently updated. 15:58:18 <zbyszek> "Now, We have some successful cloud-base image built in F28 nightly composes which can be tested" 15:58:28 <zbyszek> "Change wiki page has been updated to only include cloud-base and container images for s390x in F28" 15:58:32 <zbyszek> I think we can move on. 15:58:33 <nirik> I think the only thing missing is atomic/ostree... which is just too slow right now. 15:58:35 <nirik> yep. 15:59:14 <bowlofeggs> yeah let's move on 15:59:52 <jsmith> +1 to move on 16:00:00 <tyll> so do we need to change the bug to ON_QA? 16:01:06 <zbyszek> I changed it to ON_QA now. 16:01:46 <tyll> zbyszek: thank you 16:02:15 <tyll> #info change can be tested now 16:02:21 <tyll> #topic #1845 389-ds-base and freeipa on 32 bit arches 16:02:28 <tyll> .fesco 1845 16:02:30 <zodbot> tyll: Issue #1845: 389-ds-base and freeipa on 32 bit arches - fesco - Pagure - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1845 16:02:36 <tyll> https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1845 16:03:22 <tyll> last meeting's decision: AGREED: FESCo requires that a Change be filed for F28, and involved packagers are otherwise free to sort out the issue (+6, 0, -0) 16:04:36 <nirik> so they pushed an update that dropped i686... 16:05:59 <nirik> this issue makes my teeth itch. They discovered testing that shows things don't work on i686, so they drop it... even with tools folks there wanting to track it down and fix it. 16:06:24 <maxamillion> I'm not a big fan of how that all went down eithehr 16:06:27 <maxamillion> either* 16:06:48 <bowlofeggs> lol @ teeth itch 16:06:55 <nirik> which may mean there's a tools bug that (silently) breaks other i686 stuff 16:07:12 <bowlofeggs> i'm also annoyed that they didn't file the change as requested 16:07:59 <bowlofeggs> when do we step in and say that the maintainer(s) is(are) acting irresponsibly? 16:08:12 <tyll> #info bowlofeggs requested the change proposal in https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1530832#c8 16:08:22 <bowlofeggs> i'm not saying we've reached that point, but the question comes to mind 16:10:51 <tyll> how do we move on here? Would someone be willing to reach out to the maintainers to understand what is going on? 16:10:56 <sgallagh> bowlofeggs What would we do in that case? Take over the package? 16:11:01 <nirik> well, there's not much we can really do in the end... we can say no, or reassign packages, but .. 16:11:06 <sgallagh> I'm not about to attempt that with such a complicated project 16:11:28 <sgallagh> Our only recourse would be "block the release until they fix it" 16:11:34 <sgallagh> Which... hurts us more than them 16:11:39 <bowlofeggs> right 16:12:02 <bowlofeggs> tyll: i feel like i've bene trying to reach out to them wtihout a lot of success 16:12:26 <maxamillion> bowlofeggs: is there any history of that transaction that we can view? BZs, email, $other? 16:12:27 <bowlofeggs> we def don't have anyone banging on the door to maintain it 16:12:37 <bowlofeggs> maxamillion: just my comments on the BZs 16:12:52 <zbyszek> maxamillion: https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1530832#c8 and https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1530832#c9 16:12:58 <puiterwijk> bowlofeggs: well, we do have people willing to help look at the i686 problems (tools team) as for what I've heard... 16:13:01 <bowlofeggs> i haven't tried e-mailing them directly - perhaps that would be good 16:13:22 <bowlofeggs> puiterwijk: true. we could still kick this to the 686 sig 16:13:51 <maxamillion> zbyszek: no, I mean showing that someone was trying to reach out for help on the issue but received no feedback 16:14:02 <puiterwijk> bowlofeggs: I'm not sure the i686 sig is totally fair, but at least allowing the tools team to work on it might be possible? (no idea how it went down honestly. Not read anytime recently) 16:14:49 <nirik> maxamillion: well, glibc/gcc maintainers replied in the bug asking for reproducers or what they were seeing and... never really got details they could find the issue with 16:14:56 <zbyszek> maxamillion: that whole bug is about the tools team trying to help them diagnose the issue. 16:14:57 <bowlofeggs> maxamillion: i wouldn't say i got no feedback, but we also didn't get the change filed that we requested 16:15:22 <bowlofeggs> and yeah, they haven't really been working together with the tools team either by my estimation 16:15:32 <bowlofeggs> the tools team did seem pretty responsive i'd say 16:15:41 <maxamillion> bowlofeggs: right, I just wanted to make sure we weren't unfairly pointing fingers 16:16:09 <bowlofeggs> sure 16:17:01 <maxamillion> bowlofeggs: also wasn't sure if I was missing something 16:18:17 <nirik> I'm really not sure what we can do here. 16:18:22 <bowlofeggs> proposal: FESCo requires either a change for this, or 686 to be restored, as a final blocker 16:18:44 <zbyszek> bowlofeggs: +1 16:18:56 <nirik> perhaps we could go more lightweight than a change? release-note? 16:19:01 <bowlofeggs> but can we let them restore it at final rather than beta? then it'd miss out on beta testing... 16:19:08 <puiterwijk> I'm not sure that that hurts them a lot. As someone else just said, that hurts us more than them probably.. 16:19:19 <bowlofeggs> well we don't need to hurt them 16:19:23 <bowlofeggs> we just need it to happen 16:19:31 <bowlofeggs> nirik: sure i could be fine with release note 16:19:40 <bowlofeggs> mostly we need to make sure the change is communicated 16:20:15 <bowlofeggs> i can also write comments on both BZs that just say "File a change for this" 16:20:18 <nirik> they might go for that more than a change perhaps... 16:20:26 <puiterwijk> Also, sure, it'll miss some testing, but I don't think anything i686 is blocking, so even if we required at beta, it might still not work, nad they probably won't prioritize it. 16:20:29 <bowlofeggs> or "release note" 16:20:35 <zbyszek> Yes, but a change at this level requires a Change page. 16:20:39 <bowlofeggs> puiterwijk: true 16:20:51 <zbyszek> It's not like writing three paras of text is such a big deal. 16:21:15 <sgallagh> zbyszek: Clearly, as we have just written several books worth on this topic... 16:21:18 <bowlofeggs> hell, can *i* write the change just to get it done? 16:21:19 <puiterwijk> bowlofeggs: I would personally not suggest doing anything around Beta with it. But I do think writing a change page should not be a problem 16:21:23 <bowlofeggs> even though i'm not the maintainer? 16:21:49 <sgallagh> bowlofeggs: If you want to write the Change and get them to sign off on it, I'd be good with that 16:22:13 <bowlofeggs> i don't mind it, though i'm not sure i'll get a sign off response 16:22:14 <nirik> sure, that would be fine. 16:22:24 <bowlofeggs> i just want ot see us stop discussing this one haha 16:22:50 <tyll> thank you very much bowlofeggs 16:23:01 <bowlofeggs> i'll write a comment to ask for it. if they dont' respnd in a week i'll write the chnage. no need for fesco to re-discuss this next week unless the change is tehre 16:23:23 <nirik> +1 16:23:25 <bowlofeggs> #action bowlofeggs will make sure a change is written NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS 16:23:36 <tyll> #action bowlofeggs will ask them again for a change page and write one for himself if the maintainers do not provide one 16:23:48 <tyll> uh, double action again :-) 16:23:53 <maxamillion> bowlofeggs++ 16:23:53 <zodbot> maxamillion: Karma for bowlofeggs changed to 16 (for the f27 release cycle): https://badges.fedoraproject.org/tags/cookie/any 16:23:58 <jsmith> bowlofeggs++ 16:23:59 <zbyszek> bowlofeggs: now you're responsible for keeping the wiki running too 16:24:00 <sgallagh> tyll: Better than inaction! 16:24:04 <puiterwijk> tyll: bowlofeggs gets double the work :) 16:24:19 <tyll> ok, next neverending story 16:24:21 <tyll> #topic #1820 Adjust/Drop/Document batched updates policy 16:24:21 <puiterwijk> zbyszek: ooooh, that's a good one! Thanks for bring that on bowlofeggs! 16:24:34 <tyll> .fesco 1820 16:24:37 <tyll> https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1820 16:24:38 <zodbot> tyll: Issue #1820: Adjust/Drop/Document batched updates policy - fesco - Pagure - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1820 16:24:55 <jsmith> Didn't see much discussion on this... other than complaints about the tooling 16:25:00 <bowlofeggs> i love the cookies 16:25:12 <bowlofeggs> yeah i don't know why i engaged so much in the discussion 16:25:38 <zbyszek> I'd be inclined to wait more, until the zchunk proposal matures a bit. 16:25:39 <jsmith> If kalev presented his ideas, I missed them :-/ 16:25:48 <jsmith> zbyszek: I'm fine with that :-) 16:26:10 <jsmith> I don't think there's any rush here... 16:26:13 <zbyszek> jsmith: https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1820#comment-499724 16:26:18 <sgallagh> I don't really have much more to say than I've said in this meeting in the past: the current state is badly broken; either batched must be enforced or must be scrapped. 16:26:37 <sgallagh> I'd still like to see those UX improvements added and batching then enforced. 16:27:00 <jsmith> Did we ever get any answer back from releng regarding the possibilities of having another "firehose-updates" repo? 16:27:08 <zbyszek> Right, but I think anything will happen while we're trying to get F28 out of the door. 16:27:17 <jsmith> I seemed to remember some concerns regarding mirror storage increases, etc. 16:27:41 <jsmith> sgallagh: In that case, I'm inclined to "scrap" it in the short term 16:27:43 <nirik> well, theres push times, storage increases, etc. 16:27:56 <bowlofeggs> i haven't seen anyone strongly opposed to a firehose repo, though a "mild" opposition was voiced around the cost/benefit ratio 16:28:02 <nirik> but IMHO the problem is that 10 people will use it and it will be a waste of all those things. 16:28:07 <nirik> but I suppose we could try it and see 16:28:18 <zbyszek> There was also no feedback from QA to bowlofeggs' question 16:28:41 <bowlofeggs> QA might have been extremely busy this week since it was go/no-go week 16:28:45 <nirik> did we talk to qa? 16:28:48 <bowlofeggs> and probably next week too 16:28:52 <bowlofeggs> nirik: i posted on their list 16:29:06 <bowlofeggs> https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/test@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx/thread/6CWTD5LGOPST5NP3YRNXOKNY5NEF7WR6/ 16:29:28 <nirik> ok, cool. yes, likely this week and next are bad 16:29:42 <tyll> should we maybe postpone this until after the beta release? 16:29:52 <jsmith> I'm going to go out on a limb here.... 16:29:52 <nirik> I'd be fine with that 16:29:56 <zbyszek> Me too. 16:30:10 <sgallagh> I think I agree with jsmith though; let's suspend batched until we have a plan in place. 16:30:11 <nirik> or perhaps it would make a good flock session... brainstorm updates process. 16:30:13 <jsmith> Proposal: Disable batching until we have a better plan in place (likely waiting on zchunk discussion 16:30:13 <bowlofeggs> yeah postponing is reasonable, though that's what we do every week 16:30:22 <bowlofeggs> sgallagh: suspending batched would be an extreme engineering effort 16:30:24 <sgallagh> The current operation is unpredictable 16:30:31 <sgallagh> bowlofeggs: Why is that? 16:30:36 <bowlofeggs> sgallagh: it would be just as much work as enforcing it 16:30:52 <bowlofeggs> sgallagh: it was not a small patch, and bodhi doesn't have a nice neat "state machine" - the code is littered all over the place 16:30:59 <sgallagh> bowlofeggs: You couldn't just hack up Bodhi to auto-submit for stable if it's submitted for batched? 16:31:23 <bowlofeggs> sgallagh: not without jsut as many bugs as we had when it was implemented - bodhi's code around its state machine is not clean at all 16:31:29 <sgallagh> ok 16:31:30 <nirik> or I suppose as a bandaid we could run the script that promotes right before pushes. 16:31:40 <bowlofeggs> nirik: yeah that could be accomplished more easily 16:31:45 <bowlofeggs> nirik: or run it daily 16:31:54 <bowlofeggs> via cron 16:31:59 <sgallagh> Yeah, that's more what I meant by "suspend batched" 16:32:11 <sgallagh> From the user perspective rather than eng/ops 16:32:26 <bowlofeggs> i don't see the zchunk as being a blocker for this though - i think it's orthogonal (and good) 16:32:43 <nirik> yeah, there's several things mixed in here. 16:32:53 <sgallagh> I still feel that batched is worthwhile if it's enforced, but I think enforcing it needs to wait on UX improvements 16:33:00 <nirik> but after all the discussion I think I agree that batching would be best on the client. 16:33:05 <bowlofeggs> sgallagh: i agree 16:33:16 <nirik> (but not sure how best to do that) 16:33:35 <bowlofeggs> the drpm generation problem can't be solved client side 16:33:45 <bowlofeggs> and i think that matters much more than the metadata download 16:34:02 <bowlofeggs> in my estimation, it causes more bytes 16:34:10 <bowlofeggs> especially if enforced batching is in place 16:34:35 <nirik> well, you get the same drpm effect if you batch on the server or on the client end no? 16:35:10 <bowlofeggs> nirik: no - a higher percentage of downloaded rpms are drpms for packages that rev frequently 16:35:25 <bowlofeggs> bodhi only generates drpms from one RPM to the very next one 16:35:28 * jsmith still thinks that without someone leading the charge, we're still just discussing this around in circles without any clear direction 16:35:38 <bowlofeggs> so if a client misses any in between, they download the whole RPM again 16:36:00 <zbyszek> bowlofeggs: bodhi could be changed to generate rpms in a different way 16:36:01 <bowlofeggs> we could also generate more DRPMs, but that's actually a big part of what makes bodhi composes slow today so it would go even slower 16:36:06 <nirik> I guess. That was not mentioned really as a goal here. ;) 16:36:25 <bowlofeggs> nirik: it was an unanticipated side effect i noted the week we did the experiment 16:36:35 <bowlofeggs> i wrote about it a bit in the ticket 16:36:45 <nirik> yes, I know. 16:37:31 <nirik> and perhaps it should be a goal... just that when we started total download size was not a goal. 16:37:48 <bowlofeggs> true 16:38:20 <tyll> another option would be to keep old drpms around a little bit longer, then users might have to download several drpms but they could still be less than the whole RPM 16:38:54 <jsmith> tyll: I'm not sure the logic in DNF knows to apply multiple deltas to get the end result 16:39:21 <nirik> it doesn't I am pretty sure. 16:39:44 <nirik> it only works from A to B if there's a drpm from A to B and B is the new version its' trying to update to 16:39:55 <tyll> maybe this could be added to dnf then 16:39:56 <bowlofeggs> perhaps we could get dnf to do that and that would solve it 16:40:08 <nirik> well, drpms are a tradeoff too 16:40:13 <bowlofeggs> but would would also need pungi to do it 16:40:22 <nirik> download size vs cpu and disk space. 16:40:26 <bowlofeggs> (it being "keep n old drpms" 16:40:30 <bowlofeggs> ) 16:40:30 <puiterwijk> And it would bump up the storage requirements on both our infra and mirrors 16:40:36 <puiterwijk> Since currently we just drop old drpms 16:40:37 <bowlofeggs> yeah 16:40:56 <jsmith> Revised Proposal: Ask bodhi developers to try to "suspend" or "bypass" batching in the short term, continue discussion 16:41:02 <bowlofeggs> i still think that a high percent of updates just aren't important too 16:41:06 <bowlofeggs> even of my own updates, haha 16:41:23 <tyll> jsmith: +1 16:41:26 <zbyszek> jsmith: +1 16:41:31 <tyll> it has been too long for this discussion again 16:41:35 <nirik> +1 16:41:37 <bowlofeggs> jsmith: +0 - i don't think it's harmful to leave it as is, but am not opposed 16:42:05 <tyll> maybe we can also find someone to lead this and write up a collection of arguments and ideas 16:42:23 <zbyszek> tyll: I did that last time, I'd be happy to an update 16:42:35 <tyll> zbyszek: awesome, that would be great 16:42:46 <nirik> cool 16:42:58 <zbyszek> unless we want somebody else, to have a fresh perspective 16:43:23 <sgallagh> jsmith: +1 16:44:15 <tyll> zbyszek: did you do this in the comments? Maybe we can try a wiki page 16:44:33 <zbyszek> In a mail to fedora-devel 16:44:59 <zbyszek> I can make a wiki page 16:45:07 <tyll> zbyszek: wonderful 16:45:25 <jsmith> zbyszek: I'll volunteer to help review the wiki page for you :-) 16:45:26 <zbyszek> #action zbyszek to generate a wiki page with arguments and considerations, ask for feedback 16:45:29 <tyll> sgallagh: maxamillion jsmith dgilmore ? 16:45:38 <jsmith> tyll: I'm +1 to my own proposal :-) 16:45:42 <tyll> sgallagh: sorry, missed you 16:45:48 <sgallagh> tyll: I was about to say 16:45:49 <bowlofeggs> wiki is nice because we can review it before sending it to the mases 16:45:49 <tyll> jsmith: and I meant jwb 16:45:56 <bowlofeggs> to make sure all perspectives feel well represented 16:46:06 <puiterwijk> bowlofeggs: and you can edit it after sending :) 16:46:22 <bowlofeggs> well you can send to a specific commit :) 16:46:35 <bowlofeggs> but yeah :) 16:46:42 <zbyszek> puiterwijk: and you can edit it back if somebody edits it the wrong way ;) 16:46:50 <bowlofeggs> e-mail is harder because then people reply with "but you forgot A,B,C" :) 16:47:09 <tyll> #agree Ask bodhi developers to try to "suspend" or "bypass" batching in the short term, continue discussion (+5, 1, -0) 16:47:09 <puiterwijk> zbyszek: right. I just meant that if you later realize more points for/against, you can add them :) 16:47:17 <puiterwijk> i.e. they don't get lost in the middle of an email thread 16:47:32 <tyll> #topic #1776 F28 System Wide Change: Deprecate TCP wrappers 16:47:37 <tyll> .fesco 1776 16:47:39 <zodbot> tyll: Issue #1776: F28 System Wide Change: Deprecate TCP wrappers - fesco - Pagure - https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1776 16:47:39 <tyll> https://pagure.io/fesco/issue/1776 16:47:41 * puiterwijk was not considering malicious intent... 16:47:57 <zbyszek> puiterwijk: not malicious, just a guiding hand... 16:48:08 <puiterwijk> Heh 16:49:16 <zbyszek> Re 1776: I looked into this, and it seems that most of those packages *could* be easily edited and rebuilt using provenpackage privs and the pull requests that have been submitted. If we are fine with doing that while in beta freeze, I can do it. 16:49:38 <sgallagh> zbyszek: The only one of those that really concerned me was slapi-nis (needed by FreeIPA, a blocking package) and that one has been fixed. 16:49:51 <bowlofeggs> there seems to be recent discussion on https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=1495181 16:51:16 <zbyszek> bowlofeggs: not much movement really. Just confirmation that stuff is still blocked. 16:51:26 <tyll> zbyszek: great, I can merge PRs and issues rebuilds if we agree with it 16:52:55 <zbyszek> proposal: FESCo authorized use of pp privileges to apply patches and do rebuilds for those packages where the change is stalled 16:53:13 <zbyszek> *authorizes 16:53:21 <sgallagh> zbyszek: +1 16:53:25 <bowlofeggs> zbyszek: +1 16:53:26 <tyll> zbyszek: are there PRs or patches in Bugzilla? 16:53:32 <nirik> +1... and keep it for f28. We have been kicking this can down the road too long. ;) 16:54:02 <tyll> zbyszek: +1 16:54:21 <zbyszek> tyll: there were some PRs for some of the packages in src.fp.o, and some were linked from BZs 16:54:35 <zbyszek> (when I looked at this yesterday) 16:55:06 <tyll> jsmith: maxamillion jwb dgilmore ? 16:55:16 <jsmith> +1 16:55:33 * jsmith has to run.... sorry! 16:55:53 <maxamillion> +1 16:56:06 <tyll> #agree FESCo authorizes use of pp privileges to apply patches and do rebuils for those packages where the change is stalled (+7, 0, -0) 16:56:16 <tyll> #topic Next week's chair 16:56:24 <tyll> #undo 16:56:24 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Topic object at 0x4a1b8590> 16:56:30 <nirik> note: next friday is a holiday in the us... 16:56:48 <tyll> #action till write use his PP powers to merge tcp wrapper patches 16:56:52 <tyll> #topic Next week's chair 16:57:02 <tyll> nirik: yes, in Germany as well 16:57:12 <tyll> proposal: Skip next week? 16:57:39 <nirik> yeah, we should skip. 16:57:41 <tyll> proposal: Do next meeting on April, 6th? 16:58:20 <tyll> #info next meeting will be on 2018-04-06 due to public holidays 16:58:28 <bowlofeggs> i will likely be absent on april 6 (spring break, woooo! [my wife is a teacher so i get spring break too]) 16:58:35 <tyll> who will be the chair in two weeks? 16:58:40 <zbyszek> I can do it. 16:58:45 <tyll> zbyszek: thank you 16:58:52 <tyll> #action zbyszek will chair next meeting 16:58:57 <tyll> #topic Open Floor 16:59:04 <zbyszek> tyll: https://src.fedoraproject.org/rpms/yaz/pull-request/1 16:59:05 <sgallagh> zbyszek: Actually, I haven't done it in a while. Maybe I should take it? 16:59:13 <zbyszek> sgallagh: as you wish 16:59:16 <tyll> anything or I will close in a minute? 16:59:21 <sgallagh> I feel like you've been covering it an unfair amount of time :) 16:59:30 <tyll> #action sgallagh will chair instead of zbyszek 16:59:41 <sgallagh> I do have one item for Open Floor 16:59:42 <sgallagh> (Sorry) 16:59:52 <tyll> sgallagh: what is it? 17:00:09 <sgallagh> It's related to the Workstation Edition's suspend-by-default changes in F28 17:00:46 <sgallagh> I think it would probably be good for FESCo to keep an eye on it, as kparal discovered yesterday that this behavior leaks into other parts of Fedora if you install GNOME bits 17:00:52 * zbyszek has seen the "Computer will suspend very soon because of inactivity." message in VMs 17:00:56 <sgallagh> (For example, installing @gnome-desktop atop Server Edition) 17:01:16 <kparal> zbyszek: the VMs don't get suspended, but the notification still pops up. a bug 17:01:23 <zbyszek> kparal: yes 17:01:23 <sgallagh> The net result is a server that goes to sleep every 20 minutes that it isn't logged in at the console 17:01:55 <sgallagh> zbyszek: I've seen that happen on my laptop when I unlock it after a long absence... but it didn't suspend. 17:01:59 <sgallagh> So that's also weird 17:02:08 <bowlofeggs> oh that doesn't sound good 17:02:21 <zbyszek> Yes, I also saw it on my laptop immediately after dnf ugprade --releasever=28, but it didn't suspend. 17:02:51 <sgallagh> Anyway, I don't think there's any action for FESCo to take *yet*. But I figured I should make sure we're aware of the situation 17:03:16 <sgallagh> I talked with mclasen about it in the office this morning and he acknowledged that the Server going to sleep was definitely not appropriate. 17:03:37 <sgallagh> I'll stay on that and report back. 17:03:37 <tyll> sgallagh: thank you for the heads up 17:04:05 <tyll> ok, anything else? 17:04:15 <sgallagh> Nothing from me 17:04:38 <tyll> Thank you everyone for attending 17:04:41 <tyll> #endmeeting _______________________________________________ devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
