On 02/16/2018 05:31 AM, Colin Walters wrote: > On Thu, Feb 15, 2018, at 5:39 PM, Adam Williamson wrote: > >> In practice it tends to boil down to "me, nirik, and puiterwijk". > > Meanwhile, there are probably hundreds of people on this -devel > list who are capable of debugging and fixing things - some very > experienced engineers, yet some of them are here busily debating > minor things about spec files. > > It doesn't make any sense at all to have hundreds (thousands?) > of people whose sole power is to increment the versions of > packages they own, and a tiny subset of people who are capable > of e.g. reverting changes. > > First step: Close down the #fedora-releng channel and discuss > problems in #fedora-devel. Releasing is not a distinct problem > from development, and people should have experience in *both* > roles. I don't care much about this... I think the channel was split off because there was a lot of other traffic in devel and releng issues couldn't be discussed. > > Two next steps: > > - Empower anyone to submit a pull request that can *revert* changes > (e.g. the push steved just did to libevent) - not necessarily to > merge it, but merging the PR should actually revert (e.g. it should > also fix koji's state) The "also fix koji's state" is not something a PR can do. Look at the recent libevent so name bump. It happened and then about 3 people rebuilt their packages against it. What do you do? revert all those? Or just fix the ones still needing rebuild? Without telling everyone what you are doing this could result in doom. > - Generate a process to pick e.g. at least one person from each > edition WG, plus perhaps more from various subsystems like Anaconda to be > "on point" each day/week - and empower them to merge those PRs. Well, usually if we need someone from some area we can track them down... setting up some 'on point' person could be pretty complex... > Another step: > > - Create a process to "close the tree", like Mozilla does for Firefox. I don't know what this means can you expand? Much of the problems we see would be "fixed" by gating packages into rawhide. If they fail testing, they just don't go out until they pass/fix all the fallout from their issue. I hope this is the year we get this in place. kevin
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