Sorry for responding to myself here, but I thought it could also be worthwhile to mention that one of our primary tools for identifying
problems is the Fedora ABRT server. Looking at the current stats it looks to me like F27 is actually doing better than F26 used to in
terms of minimizing crashers: https://goo.gl/babuJx
There is always a chance ABRT is not catching the issues of course for some reason, but since the initial email did claim developers
don't care about making sure things works well I thought it would be worthwhile pointing out some of the tools we use to try to
ensure that things work well.
Christian
On Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 6:29 AM, Christian Fredrik Schaller <cschalle@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Hi there,I am sad to hear that people are having issues when using Wayland (and even the X.org session). Be aware though that we have devs dedicated at RH to look at Fedora Wayland bugs, so if you file bugs we will try our best to look at them and figure out what is happening. It obviously works well for many of us, including the devs themselves, so there must be some specific hardware and or software combinations triggering these problems. So please file bugs against Wayland in the Fedora bugzilla and we will try our best to take a look.Sincerely,Christian SchallerOn Mon, Jan 22, 2018 at 5:43 AM, Charalampos Stratakis <cstratak@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:While you are correct with your observations I'd like to point out that OP might just be frustrated with the unusability of wayland and that's his way of communicating it.
----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stephen John Smoogen" <smooge@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: hlhowell@xxxxxxxxxxx, "Development discussions related to Fedora" <devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Cc: "Francesco Frassinelli" <fraph24@xxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2018 8:42:46 PM
> Subject: Re: Wyland is a disaster
>
> On 21 January 2018 at 14:06, Howard Howell <hlhowell@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > On Sun, 2018-01-21 at 15:25 +0100, Igor Gnatenko wrote:
> >> Folks, please move this discussion to users@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx.
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
> > HI, Igor,
> > I posted here on purpose. Users cannot change the direction of
> > Linux, only you guys, the developers, have that capability. I like the
> > direction the discussion has taken. I want the group to think
> > responsibily about the users. Not just the technology, because
> > technology that is not useful on a widely distributed operating system
> > is not beneficial to anyone.
> >
>
> Posting a diatribe to the devel list usually has the opposite effect
> than getting people to think about things.
>
> First off this list does not develop Wayland. It does not develop
> GNOME or KDE. It may incorporate those into the finished OS but it is
> too late in the process to change the direction.
>
> Second, most of the people on this list have no say in what is going
> on there and have no way to 'change direction'. The people who agree
> with you on this aren't doing anything to change direction.. saying "I
> agree" doesn't mean that anyone is fixing anything or finding why
> something is crashing, etc. It doesn't mean that any developer who
> actually works on the stuff is going to see your emails.
>
> Third, if you actually wanted to change people's opinions you would
> not have come into this list like a drunk with a broken bottle.
> Calling a project a disaster, mis-spelling it constantly like it was a
> slur, and not actually putting any details like bug reports screams "I
> am just here to abuse you for your work." It says to the people who
> might actually have the power to fix to ignore it and send the thread
> to spam. Yes you have people saying "I agree" but they aren't actually
> moving the conversation forward... they are just echoing empty
> affirmation. It doesn't mean anyone is going to do anything.. and
> thinking that it does is foolish.
>
> > As to my misspelling of Wayland, that is ignorance on my part.
> > I regret that, but as they say, it's on the internet, and immortal.
> >
>
> Thank you for the apology. I would say to start this over again do the
> following:
>
> 1. Research your actual problems. Get bug reports. If you are having
> problems figuring them out ask on the appropriate list "Hey I am
> having a problem using Wayland on my <fill in detailed hardware
> description>. It is crashing when I do <detailed application>. I don't
> know how to debug this better."
> 2. Don't post an email with a drama queen title calling something a
> disaster or "end of the world". Be clear and concise.
>
>
> > Regards,
> > Les H
> > _______________________________________________
> > devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
>
>
>
> --
> Stephen J Smoogen.
> _______________________________________________
> devel mailing list -- devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> To unsubscribe send an email to devel-leave@lists.fedoraproject.org
>
And i'm saying that because wayland has been for me also an absolutely frustrating experience (on F27 that is). F26 was fine on wayland and xorg, however currently on F27 with the same setup (T450s with docking station and two monitors) wayland is unusable due to crashes and xorg just makes gnome-shell crash less. And at the same time I have tried to debug the issues, filed reports, compiled rpm's with various fixes, but it just seems that gnome-shell keeps crashing for a different reason each time.
Again that was not the case with F26, so I keep wondering what went wrong with the latest gnome (or wayland), on F27.
--
Regards,
Charalampos Stratakis
Software Engineer
Python Maintenance Team, Red Hat
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