Hi, Just noticed this change on rawhide... https://github.com/systemd/systemd/blob/master/NEWS#L29 * systemd-logind will now by default terminate user processes that are part of the user session scope unit (session-XX.scope) when the user logs out. This behavior is controlled by the KillUserProcesses= setting in logind.conf, and the previous default of "no" is now changed to "yes". This means that user sessions will be properly cleaned up after, but additional steps are necessary to allow intentionally long-running processes to survive logout. While the user is logged in at least once, user@.service is running, and any service that should survive the end of any individual login session can be started at a user service or scope using systemd-run. systemd-run(1) man page has been extended with an example which shows how to run screen in a scope unit underneath user@.service. The same command works for tmux. After the user logs out of all sessions, user@.service will be terminated too, by default, unless the user has "lingering" enabled. To effectively allow users to run long-term tasks even if they are logged out, lingering must be enabled for them. See loginctl(1) for details. The default polkit policy was modified to allow users to set lingering for themselves without authentication. Previous defaults can be restored at compile time by the --without-kill-user-processes option to "configure". So, now, I've read this and I could possibly remember to use systemd-run or to set myself as lingering... Except that I don't want to have to go through the pain of remembering to either change the system config on all my servers or always starting stuff with systemd-run if it's a bit long and I think I might want to ^Z/bg/disown it to let it finish. Thinking further when my users get that update I don't see myself telling them to do that when they want to start a screen/tmux/nohup-job, users do not read every update changelogs (tbh I don't either unless there's a problem); and they probably wouldn't think of systemd if they ever get that particular issue.. heck they probably don't even know what systemd and logind are (even if yes, they are "advanced" enough to ssh into other servers to run *long* tasks that must continue overnight/when the user logs out ; it doesn't mean they know what they're using exactly) Sure, this change will work for the whole probably targetted audience of simple desktop users on shared workstations where we probably want to kill lingering processes; but how much is that compared to servers ? I know that if this gets through I will have to change the system default on all my servers... And while the big batches of thousands of compute nodes are automated there's still quite a few places to update, especially since this will be the first time we need to change logind.conf so it's not just adding a line to a file already propagated Anyway, I don't really want to start (yet) a(nother) troll on systemd, I appreciate it's also brought good things; I'd just like the default values to be sane for most of the users. I did not see any discussion about this particular setting in the systemd-devel mailing list so I have hope that it is still open to change, but I'd rather start with a community where there are more admins who will likely agree that this change will do more harm than good. Even if nothing comes out of it, at least more people will be aware of the issue and will be able to prepare to avoid most of the chaos that will come if this stays like this... Thanks for reading, -- Dominique Martinet -- devel mailing list devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://lists.fedoraproject.org/admin/lists/devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
