On 09/12/2015 08:19 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 12.09.2015 um 16:09 schrieb Orion Poplawski:
On 09/11/2015 08:51 PM, Reindl Harald wrote:
Am 11.09.2015 um 23:09 schrieb Orion Poplawski:
What does Fedora users gain with "dnf
install rails" or "dnf install ipython" versus "gem install rails" and
"pip
install ipython"?
a clean and maintainable installation over years instead a mess breaking
sooner or later
I'm sorry, but this seems like a bit of a knee jerk reaction. Are pip
and gem that bad? Certainly maybe just some bugs to fix?
you even refuse trying to understand what i talk about
Reindl - can you please stop being to F'ing obnoxious all the F'ing
time? Maybe it's a language thing, but I'm really not refusing to do
anything here. I really am trying to understand this.
it's not a matter if they are that bad from a sysadmin perspective, you
lose the central management and can no longer guarantee that you have
repeatable installations when you do exactly the same 3 days later on a
production machine which was tested - you may get newer versions
Okay, I grant you the loss of central management thing and that sucks.
But I'm afraid it may become a fact of life.
As for versions, at least with pip and gem you can request specific
versions to be installed. These tools are very much designed for
repeatable installs with specific version requirements. That's why so
many upstreams insist on people using them - because they want you to
have the same versions they test with.
And heck, with the stream of Fedora updates, you can also get different
versions using yum/dnf. Sure, we try not to break things with updates
unlike upstreams that seem to have lost all concept of trying to
maintain API/ABI stability.
when i type "distribute-updates.sh" or "distribute-install.sh
meta-package" i can be 100% sure in which state the destination ends
Yeah, it sucks when your workflow breaks, it really does and I feel your
pain here. However it seems that much of the focus has shifted from
maintaining installs over the years to being able to spin up new systems
to a given spec quickly. Long ago I shifted away from doing upgrades to
using kickstart + (cfengine -> puppet -> ansible) to do fresh installs
of systems to given specifications. I've found this much more
maintainable, and even faster.
I am aware of the critical bug with pip currently on Fedora in that it
installs in the system python directories directly overwriting rpm
packages. But hopefully we can get that fixed. Although the fact that
this bug has been open for 5 years does not give me much hope:
that is the worst case of all
but you don't need such a bug when we talk over maintaining machines for
many years, sooner or later you will have conflicts which happens als
for rpm sometimes, with every additional package management you increase
the probability
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=662034
Although at least it looks like everyone (at least on the Fedora side)
is in favor, just no one to drive the work.
--
Orion Poplawski
Technical Manager 303-415-9701 x222
NWRA/CoRA Division FAX: 303-415-9702
3380 Mitchell Lane orion@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Boulder, CO 80301 http://www.cora.nwra.com
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