On Mon, 20.10.14 15:08, Matthew Miller (mattdm@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx) wrote: > On Mon, Oct 20, 2014 at 08:56:19PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote: > > But again, I am not sure I understand what is going on here. Is > > systemd now optional in Fedora? > > I guess to some degree everything is "optional" in one way or another. > It's certainly the init system we are using. I think the context is in > cases where the packages are used without an init system, systemd or > otherwise — the main case being single-process (or at least > single-parent-process) application containers. > > (I'm also looking forward to systemd as a process manager inside e.g. > Docker for more sophisticated multi-process applications which for > whatever reason want to be in the same container, but that's a > different use case.) While I can see the reason why you want this I really find this quite dubious in general. Much of our stack relies on /run and all those other facilities, of our general execution environment to be properly initialized, cleaned up and maintained. We do this with tmpfiles snippets, early-boot services, cron jobs, timer units, and so on and so on. Just saying "no" to these things, ignoring them and not executing them will only get you so far. It also creates in a way a new execution environment, unless you perfectly replicate the execution environment from your container manager, knowing all components in play, including all libraries and whatever else. If you really intend to make Fedora in general workable without providing support for tmpfiles bits, without cron jobs, without timer units, without setting up the execution environmnt the same way as on a classic Fedora boot, then please make this a clear goal of Fedora. But just trying to add this through the backdoor sounds wrong. Honestly though, I really don't think this is really such a good idea. You make things much more complicated for developers that way. We *want* developers to make use of the OS services we provide after all. It makes the system more uniform and more accessible to our admins and users. If you take the vast majority of the facilities that we provide for software away, then very little remains, you devalue the OS itself. Lennart -- Lennart Poettering, Red Hat -- devel mailing list devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
