=================================== #fedora-meeting: FESCO (2014-01-08) =================================== Meeting started by t8m at 18:01:33 UTC. The full logs are available at http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2014-01-08/fesco.2014-01-08-18.01.log.html . Meeting summary --------------- * init process (t8m, 18:01:34) * #1132 libtool + %global _hardened_build 1 = no full hardening (t8m, 18:04:10) * AGREED: Apply the %configure hack (with possible opt-out) as of https://bugzilla.redhat.com/attachment.cgi?id=838954 (+7, 0, 0) (t8m, 18:09:34) * ACTION: nirik will apply the patch and announce it on fedora-devel (t8m, 18:10:25) * #1198 Possible changes to Fedora EOL bug procedure (t8m, 18:11:02) * #1213 Please process commit access requests for spampd (t8m, 18:12:43) * AGREED: Nirik sent direct e-mail, we will revisit next week (+7, 0, 0) (t8m, 18:25:54) * #1216 Requesting input on FESCo Badge concept (t8m, 18:26:19) * Next week's chair (t8m, 18:33:16) * ACTION: mmaslano will be the next week's chair (t8m, 18:36:59) * Open Floor (t8m, 18:37:27) * AGREED: PRD deadline bumped by 7 days to the 20th (+7, -0, 0:2) (t8m, 18:47:28) * feel free to submit even unfinished PRDs for comments to devel-announce@ and open a FESCo ticket earlier (t8m, 18:50:50) Meeting ended at 18:55:34 UTC. Action Items ------------ * nirik will apply the patch and announce it on fedora-devel * mmaslano will be the next week's chair Action Items, by person ----------------------- * mmaslano * mmaslano will be the next week's chair * nirik * nirik will apply the patch and announce it on fedora-devel * **UNASSIGNED** * (none) People Present (lines said) --------------------------- * t8m (63) * mattdm (51) * nirik (32) * pjones (24) * sgallagh (12) * mmaslano (12) * mitr (10) * zodbot (10) * notting (9) * abadger1999 (8) * jreznik (2) -- 18:01:33 <t8m> #startmeeting FESCO (2014-01-08) 18:01:33 <zodbot> Meeting started Wed Jan 8 18:01:33 2014 UTC. The chair is t8m. Information about MeetBot at http://wiki.debian.org/MeetBot. 18:01:33 <zodbot> Useful Commands: #action #agreed #halp #info #idea #link #topic. 18:01:34 <t8m> #meetingname fesco 18:01:34 <zodbot> The meeting name has been set to 'fesco' 18:01:34 <t8m> #chair abadger1999 mattdm mitr mmaslano notting nirik pjones t8m sgallagh 18:01:34 <t8m> #topic init process 18:01:34 <zodbot> Current chairs: abadger1999 mattdm mitr mmaslano nirik notting pjones sgallagh t8m 18:01:42 <t8m> Hello all 18:01:43 <mmaslano> hi 18:01:43 <nirik> morning everyone. 18:01:45 <mattdm> hello1 18:01:46 <sgallagh> .hellomynameis sgallagh 18:01:48 <zodbot> sgallagh: sgallagh 'Stephen Gallagher' <sgallagh@xxxxxxxxxx> 18:01:54 <pjones> happy new year, everybody 18:02:03 <sgallagh> I'm splitting my attention with Server PRD planning, so apologies if I'm slow to respond 18:02:06 * notting is here 18:02:15 <t8m> Yep, happy new year to everyone 18:02:49 <t8m> I hope this time the meeting will be quite short 18:03:05 <mattdm> hahahah. 18:03:09 <mattdm> i mean yes 18:03:13 <t8m> :) 18:03:47 <t8m> abadger1999, mitr, around? 18:03:55 <mitr> Hello 18:03:58 <t8m> let's start then 18:04:05 * abadger1999 here but extricating from other discussions 18:04:10 <t8m> #topic #1132 libtool + %global _hardened_build 1 = no full hardening 18:04:14 <t8m> .fesco 1132 18:04:16 <zodbot> t8m: #1132 (libtool + %global _hardened_build 1 = no full hardening) – FESCo - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1132 18:05:07 <t8m> So any volunteer to apply the new %configure hack? 18:05:44 <t8m> or do we need to vote first whether it should be applied? 18:05:47 * nirik looks to see where we were. 18:07:25 <nirik> ok, yeah, sounds like we were ready to try the latest patch in rawhide. 18:07:34 * mattdm nods 18:07:48 <t8m> #proposal Apply the %configure hack (with possible opt-out) as of https://bugzilla.redhat.com/attachment.cgi?id=838954 18:08:01 <mattdm> +1 18:08:04 <t8m> +1 18:08:07 <nirik> +1 18:08:09 <abadger1999> +1 18:08:10 <notting> +1 18:08:11 <mmaslano> +1 18:08:20 <mitr> +1, please announce on fedora-devel 18:08:54 <nirik> so, who wants to apply and announce? ;) 18:09:31 * nirik listens to crickets, guess that means me. 18:09:34 <t8m> #agreed Apply the %configure hack (with possible opt-out) as of https://bugzilla.redhat.com/attachment.cgi?id=838954 (+7, 0, 0) 18:09:42 <t8m> heh :) 18:09:53 <nirik> not sure how fast I will get to it, but can try 18:09:56 <t8m> nirik, thanks for volunteering 18:10:07 <pjones> (for the record, +1) 18:10:25 <t8m> #action nirik will apply the patch and announce it on fedora-devel 18:11:02 <t8m> #topic #1198 Possible changes to Fedora EOL bug procedure 18:11:07 <t8m> .fesco 1198 18:11:08 <zodbot> t8m: #1198 (Possible changes to Fedora EOL bug procedure) – FESCo - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1198 18:11:32 <mattdm> I'm going to look through bugs closed as wontfix this cycle 18:11:38 <mattdm> and contact some of the users affected 18:11:42 <mattdm> and see if they can reopen 18:11:59 <mattdm> i would like to leave the ticket open but take it off the agenda 18:12:04 <mattdm> until i can do that project 18:12:15 <t8m> OK 18:12:23 <t8m> thanks, mattdm 18:12:26 <t8m> next topic 18:12:43 <t8m> #topic #1213 Please process commit access requests for spampd 18:12:49 <t8m> .fesco 1213 18:12:50 <zodbot> t8m: #1213 (Please process commit access requests for spampd) – FESCo - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1213 18:13:16 <nirik> oddly, I saw an email on another list from him today... 18:13:42 <t8m> So I am not sure the nonresponsive maintainers policy was followed completely 18:14:11 <nirik> the process is pretty long and unweidly sadly. 18:14:24 <t8m> yep 18:15:00 <sgallagh> Yeah, that process really seems to be weighted towards lazy owners rather than willing maintainers. 18:15:39 <pjones> I think that's a conclusion unsupported by data 18:15:49 <t8m> I could see some improvement or fasttrack process if the maintainer was not appearing anywhere for a long time. 18:15:58 <pjones> t8m: that might be a good idea 18:16:03 <jreznik> for EOL - we have one week left 18:16:05 <nirik> it's difficult, because the world isn't black and white. 18:16:14 <pjones> nirik: that's right 18:16:18 <mattdm> +1 nirik 18:16:24 <t8m> dure 18:16:29 <t8m> sure that is 18:16:43 <pjones> the biggest assumption our current process makes is that the current maintainer probably has the most domain experience with the package 18:16:50 <pjones> which may or may not be true, but often is 18:17:05 <mattdm> has anyone attempted to contact mattias in other channels? 18:17:07 <pjones> and so it's weighted heavily towards keeping the incumbent in unless there's a good reason not to 18:17:52 <nirik> mattdm: I just sent him email 18:18:04 <nirik> I see the posts to the devel list didn't cc him (as I think the policy asks) 18:18:08 <mattdm> nirik okay so i won't press send on the one i was writing. heh 18:18:49 <mattdm> policy doesn't seem to ask that, but it seems to imply other attempts at contacting the maintainer 18:18:54 <t8m> #proposal Wait a week for eventual response to direct mail from Matthias 18:18:56 <pjones> I guess the other big assumption it makes is that when people say they're following the process, they are 18:19:08 <nirik> pjones: right, it's pretty free form 18:19:16 <nirik> t8m: +1 18:19:20 <pjones> which maybe we could provide a checkbox-list form for the reporter to fill out for the ticket? 18:19:22 <notting> pjones: which is not much different than the rest of our discretionary policies 18:19:36 <mattdm> part of the process is "all reasonable efforts to contact the maintainer have failed", and that's open to a lot of interpretation 18:19:38 <pjones> [ ] the owner has been contacted directly 18:19:48 <notting> pjones: but yes, automation / acutal *processing* good 18:19:49 <pjones> [ ] the owner has been contacted on f-d-l and was on the cc list 18:20:11 <pjones> [ ] I have feelings and deserve dignity which I will demand by doing a good job at this checkybox form 18:20:14 <mattdm> #proposal note that nirik sent an email, revisit next week 18:20:19 <mmaslano> +1 18:20:28 <mattdm> lol pjones 18:20:48 <mitr> pjones: per the theoretical process we shouldn't even be getting a ticket, but reacting on fedora-devel 18:20:50 <nirik> we did have a proposal a long time ago to do a timeout on acl requests. 18:21:02 <pjones> mitr: that's true, and occasionally it even works that way 18:21:22 <nirik> ie, you ask for commit on a package, if the maintainer doesn't say yes or no after X time, it autoapproves you and you can work on the package 18:21:27 <pjones> mitr: I suspect the timing of this request in terms of holidays is to its detriment. 18:21:41 <mitr> proposal? (Really not sure) After step 5 of http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Policy_for_nonresponsive_package_maintainers, add "File a FESCo ticket to get an ack" 18:21:43 <t8m> +1 to myself or mattdm's proposal as it is basically the same 18:21:57 <pjones> nirik: ... which works a lot better in february than in august if the maintainer is, for example, in france... 18:21:57 <mitr> +1 to mattdm 18:22:13 <nirik> pjones: yeah, depending on how long X is. 18:22:52 * mattdm did not see t8m's earlier proposal. i agree that they're basically the same. 18:23:15 <nirik> mitr: in practice thats what seems to usually happen anyhow. ;) 18:23:47 <t8m> Please vote :) 18:24:13 <mattdm> t8m +1 to yours too if that helps :) 18:24:40 <notting> oh, for 'wait for a week'? +1 18:24:51 <pjones> mattdm: +1 18:25:54 <t8m> #agreed Nirik sent direct e-mail, we will revisit next week (+7, 0, 0) 18:26:01 <t8m> (with some sloppy counting) 18:26:19 <t8m> #topic #1216 Requesting input on FESCo Badge concept 18:26:24 <t8m> .fesco 1216 18:26:25 <zodbot> t8m: #1216 (Requesting input on FESCo Badge concept) – FESCo - https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1216 18:27:41 <pjones> I think it should say "Ultima Ratio Regum" on it some place. 18:27:48 <nirik> ha 18:27:50 <t8m> So I don't really have any idea what should be on FESCo ex-member badge 18:27:53 * nirik doesn't too much care. 18:28:08 <nirik> the badges artwork has been outstanding so far. :) 18:28:24 <notting> maybe just a picture of the sierra madres. 18:28:25 * mitr has nothing to add 18:28:44 <mmaslano> I liked vondruch proposal in ticket 18:28:47 <nirik> "I know the treasure is here somewhere!" ? :) 18:28:52 <mattdm> rubber stamp seems fine, as long as it that stays a caricature and not reality :) 18:29:13 <mattdm> the steering wheel is good too 18:29:18 <abadger1999> adminral "it's a trap!" akbar 18:29:47 <pjones> notting: wee don't need no steenking BADges? 18:30:19 <sgallagh> No one likes the Eye of Providence? ;-) 18:30:37 <pjones> mattdm: as long as you can read it (maybe backwards) and it says "rejected" or "your idea is bad and you should feel bad" or "ultima ratio regum" ;) 18:31:07 <mattdm> sgallagh no that one needs to be reserved for members of the fedora cabal 18:31:22 <t8m> I like the "ultima ratio regum" as it is funnily ironic in many ways 18:31:39 <mattdm> that plus the rubber stamp. done. 18:31:40 <sgallagh> mattdm: So only Red Hat members of FESCo <.< >.> 18:31:54 <pjones> sgallagh: I think that's all of us right now... 18:32:03 <notting> pjones: is the latin in the badge on an actual cannon? 18:32:19 <mitr> notting: it's correct latin, if that's what you are asking 18:32:22 <pjones> notting: a cannon that says that would be perfectly fine by me ;) 18:32:47 <t8m> OK, I'll add to the ticket that the author of the badge should read this meeting log for ideas :) 18:33:16 <t8m> #topic Next week's chair 18:33:53 <t8m> anybody volunteers? 18:33:58 <abadger1999> mattdm: We should have a cabal badge that's never awarded ;-) 18:34:06 <nirik> abadger1999: +1 18:34:36 <pjones> abadger1999: don't tempt me to root the badge system ;) 18:35:03 <mattdm> abadger1999 nice :) 18:36:35 <mattdm> abadger1999 it should be awarded to no actual people but the badge page should say that it was awarded 13 times 18:36:43 <mmaslano> t8m: ok, I'll do it 18:36:59 <t8m> #action mmaslano will be the next week's chair 18:37:01 <abadger1999> mmaslano: +13 ;-) 18:37:08 <t8m> ;) 18:37:12 <mmaslano> abadger1999: I opt out ;-) 18:37:27 <t8m> #topic Open Floor 18:37:38 <t8m> Anything? 18:37:49 <t8m> except for more cabal badges proposals? 18:37:49 <mattdm> So, I'm pretty sure cloud WG prd is not going to be as good as it could be by the deadline 18:37:58 <mattdm> we made some good progress but it needs more work 18:38:16 <mattdm> I'd like to request a 1-week extension 18:38:24 <mattdm> from our arbitrary deadline 18:38:31 <nirik> well, theres still the later part of this week and early next week, no? 18:38:50 <jreznik> btw. I was getting quite a lot questions about F21 release schedule - so it's now on planet.fpo... 18:39:19 <notting> mattdm: i'd be ok with that 18:39:24 <t8m> mattdm, go ahead with #proposal 18:39:35 <mmaslano> I'm not sure with env and stacks prd too 18:39:47 <mmaslano> one week could be beneficial 18:40:27 <nirik> I'd prefer to see next week what still needs more time. 18:40:47 <mattdm> previous deadline was the 15th, right? 18:41:13 <mattdm> I'm okay with still trying to hit that but giving the warning that we might ask for an extension at that point 18:41:25 <mattdm> no wait it was the 13th 18:41:30 <mattdm> eg monday. 18:41:40 <mitr> I'd somewhat prefer that (just for the psychological effect) 18:41:46 <nirik> I thought it was 15th... 18:41:56 <mattdm> nirik https://fedorahosted.org/fesco/ticket/1196 18:42:03 <mmaslano> mattdm: yeah so 15th would be better for us 18:42:14 <mattdm> okay, so: 18:42:21 <mitr> but we've also been thinking it's >13th 18:42:35 <mattdm> #proposal bump PRD deadline by 2 days to the 15th to align with FESCo meeting 18:42:54 <mmaslano> +1 18:43:10 <mattdm> and we'll see where we are there. hopefully done. :) 18:43:16 <t8m> well fesco should have some time to study it shouldn't? 18:43:31 <sgallagh> The purpose of the 13th was to give FESCo two days to read it and formulate thoughts 18:43:38 <mattdm> t8m that might have been the original intention of giving extra days, yeah. 18:43:39 <t8m> sgallagh, +1 18:43:47 <sgallagh> Actually, were these being submitted to FESCo or the Board? 18:43:57 <nirik> fesco, IMHO 18:44:07 <mattdm> i think we agreed that fesco would review them and pass on to board with recommendation 18:44:15 <sgallagh> mattdm: Right, thanks 18:44:55 <mmaslano> so, different proposal? +7 days, so fesco has time to review those prds? 18:45:08 <t8m> mmaslano, +1 18:45:24 <mattdm> mmaslano +1 18:45:34 <notting> sure, still +1 18:45:56 <nirik> sigh, ok. 18:45:59 <mattdm> and of course if some are done earlier that's just fine. i think workstation is about ready, for example 18:45:59 <nirik> +1 18:45:59 <mmaslano> +1 to my proposal 18:46:01 <t8m> mmaslano, do you vote for yourself? 18:46:08 <sgallagh> 0. I understand the necessity for Cloud, but I don't really like forcing the date out since we're waiting for these to start scheduling. 18:46:27 <pjones> mmaslano: +1 18:46:50 <abadger1999> 0 18:47:00 <mitr> +1; we still need a Server<->Cloud conversation to happen AFAICS and that will take some back-and-forth 18:47:17 <nirik> sgallagh: yeah, this is all still too abstract for me to know really what we are producing, which worries me. The longer we take to actually figure out what we need to change the less time we have 18:47:21 * abadger1999 thinks that starting the review, feedback cycle next week might still be beneficial 18:47:28 <t8m> #agreed PRD deadline bumped by 7 days to the 20th (+7, -0, 0:2) 18:47:29 <mattdm> mitr yeah that's one of our blank sections. 18:47:35 <abadger1999> even if some of the prds were still work in progress 18:47:54 <mattdm> sgallagh attempted to get that conversation started I think but we aren't ready. 18:47:56 <mattdm> weren't 18:48:02 <mattdm> i think it's much more ready now, actually 18:48:22 <t8m> #info feel free to submit even unfinished PRDs for comments earlier 18:48:37 <mattdm> heh i was just typing that info t8m :) 18:49:29 <sgallagh> t8m: Submit where? 18:49:35 <sgallagh> devel@ 18:49:36 <sgallagh> ? 18:49:52 <t8m> sgallagh, I suppose so 18:49:53 <mattdm> post to devel-announce, maybe file fesco ticket? 18:50:19 <mattdm> (we probably want a ticket for each of 'em anyway.) 18:50:27 <t8m> #undo 18:50:27 <zodbot> Removing item from minutes: <MeetBot.items.Info object at 0x2d5be5d0> 18:50:50 <t8m> #info feel free to submit even unfinished PRDs for comments to devel-announce@ and open a FESCo ticket earlier 18:52:12 <t8m> Anything else for Open Floor? 18:52:28 <nirik> just heard back from thias... ;) 18:52:55 <nirik> he's going to try and add folks as co-maintainers, as his life has been very busy of late. 18:53:04 <mattdm> aweome 18:53:06 <mattdm> some 18:53:07 <t8m> good 18:53:12 <mattdm> this keyboard ucks 18:54:13 <t8m> I will close the meeting in a minute if nobody has anything else. 18:55:34 <t8m> #endmeeting -- devel mailing list devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
