Le samedi 27 juillet 2013 à 12:54 +0200, Reindl Harald a écrit : > > Am 27.07.2013 12:45, schrieb drago01: > > On Sat, Jul 27, 2013 at 12:39 PM, Nicolas Mailhot > >>> Even if we do that ... for most of those user this mails are mostly noise. > >> > >> Where are the facts backing this assertion? > > > > Common sense ... > > so i am maintaing more than 20 fedora machines and i am > happy about this mails from my *first day* with Fedora > many years ago Sure, so that's 1 person. No, find just a bit more and we will start to be able to have proper data instead of anecdote. I can tell that most of the non technical users ( around 40 in my office, but I have no reason to believe the 1960 in others offices are different on that part ) using linux desktop at work ask me why they receive mail everyday speaking of the backup system not being configured ( and so mailling them to enable it ). Most have no idea why they receive mail from the computer, because for most of them, this is something they never faced. ( and we are speaking of corporate mail, so i can only imagine for the personal mail ). A notification that come on your desktop is something people can understand and a little bit more familiar to them . A mail sent by your computer to say something on a regular basis is not, except for technical person like you and me ( and usually, when I receive mail from cron, they are obscure and useless and due to some failure, so I think people writing cron job do not care that much to help me seeing what is is wrong ). > so which "commons sense" is more woth? > yours or mine? > > > where are the facts backing up the opposite? > > nobody needs to backing up the opposite! > > if somebody comes up and and declares long existing > things as noise and wants to deprecate them he is > the one who has to bring facts cron output is usually not translated ( cause it is well know that every admin speak english, why should we take care of that ), and that's already a problem. A mail do not permit a good interaction ( like "click here to configure stuff that you should configure" ) while a notification permit that ( at least on a desktop ). There is no rate limitation for cronjob output. Usually, no need to send me 100 mails about "job error, no disk space", I got the message on the first mail, the 99th are just useless spam that also contribute to the problem. AFAIK, you cannot easily ( ie, without being minimaly command line savy ) opt out of the mail notification, except by filtering that on your mail, which is not something all users know how to do ( but receiving mail they do not want is something they do not want, and I even got a server ending in a blacklist of yahoo because I think one user ended to filter the mail from cron he received on a server ). For a desktop use case with a single user, that's already enough reasons to use something else. For a desktop with more than 1 user, the issue are the same, except that now, someone has to configure the email of every user in /etc/aliases, thus needing more than a anaconda patch. And for servers, having 2 ways to get logs of what is running is just asking for more work than needed. When you setup something to aggregate the log ( splunk, central syslog ), there is no need to have a second system that send a different type of log on a different way, just because "this was done like this before". 2 systems, twice the risk of failing, twice the work to setup, and of course, they do not match on feature. Anyway, I think I contributed enough to this thread, so I will stop here. -- Michael Scherer -- devel mailing list devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel Fedora Code of Conduct: http://fedoraproject.org/code-of-conduct
