Hi,
On Monday 22 July 2013 20:33:32 Lennart Poettering wrote:
> On Sun, 21.07.13 01:50, Oron Peled (oron@xxxxxxxxxxxx) wrote:
> > OK, I won't count mailx and mutt because we talk about different audience,
> > should we open bug-reports for the rest? (kmail? evolution?)
>
> Goog luck filing bugs against Thunderbird, GMail and Zimbra to add
> support for local mail queue reading...
Hmmm... I didn't know any of them was installed by *default*.
After all, the issue is *default* setup, isn't it?
[bit-off-topic: unlike the others you mentioned, Thunderbird is a local MUA.
Not being able to process any local mailbox (mbox/maildir/whatever)
was the primary reason I never used it -- I cannot afford loosing
almost 20 years of email history, much less convert it to some HTML
based private format]
> > Cron was already mentioned, but every one seem to ignore the fact that
> > regular users don't have permission to read system logs.
>
> journald actually splits out user logs and use filesystem ACLs to ensure
> that the user gets read access to his own logs. This doesn't work for
> syslog (and also not if cron first collects all logs and then logs them
> as root).
[thanks for referring to this issue. In a separate sub-thread I complained
about not being addressed before seeing this mail]
There are two issues however:
* The log-splitting of journald is really nice feature. But it doesn't
work for cron:
$ echo '* * * * * /bin/echo "Test output from cron"' | \
crontab '-' # than wait a minute
$ journalctl # only shows crontab, not the cron output
$ su -
# journalctl # Cron output is properly shown.
So this issue is still outstanding (but I'll bet you knew that)
* Logs are inherently line-oriented (which is very good for their
intended use case). However, many cron-jobs produce various reports
which are multi-line in their nature -- not a very good fit.
IMO a reasonable path may be:
* Not installing MTA at all for the *minimal* case.
* Install MTA for the default case (especially desktops).
* In that case, no SMTP port listening is needed. The default use
case is about the ability to deliver messages by piping them
to the MTA. No application/tool that I know of, tries to notify
by sending to STMP on localhost (am I wrong here?)
* Automatic mail-alias of root to the installing user will go a long
way to make it more visible/useful.
* Adding local mailbox as default configuration of MUA's (at least
those installed by default for desktops) is even better.
Bye,
--
Oron Peled Voice: +972-4-8228492
oron@xxxxxxxxxxxx http://users.actcom.co.il/~oron
Linux: If you're not careful, you might actually learn something.
-- Allen Wong
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