On Monday 15 July 2013 17:55:34 Lennart Poettering wrote: > On Tue, 16.07.13 00:55, Dan Fruehauf (malkodan@xxxxxxxxx) wrote: > > > +1 - same here. You're far from being alone. > > > > I'm still trying to get used to the new systemd in Fedora and still trying > > to think why I need it. Altogether for my day to day use I find it as added > > complexity with no real benefit cerca f15. > > > > Unix/Linux for me is the simplicity of text files. If I lose the simplicity > > of text files I just wonder what is left for me? A bunch of vague files in > > a binary format I need complex tools to decipher? Might as well just > > install win7 and utilize my gfx card. > > Well, there are certain things on Unix that are text files and many > things that are not. Binary log files have a long tradition on Unix, for > example in wtmp and utmp. We have binary files in /etc, and everywhere > else. > > journalctl is certainly not a "complex tool" to understand. Command > lines usually get shorter by using it rather than the equivalent for > /var/log/messages. > > "cat /var/log/messages" becomes just "journalctl" > > "tail -f /var/log/messages" becomes "journalctl -f" > > "tail -n 100 /var/log/messages" becomes "journalctl -n 100" > > "grep foo /var/log/messages" becomes journalctl | grep foo" > > And the outputs of these files are the exact same text streams you are > used to. However, enhanced with a lot of niceties that make them more > user friendly. For example, you get colors based on the log level, or > there's a line drawn between reboots. You get the time zone corrected, > and you get unconditional PID data, you can filter very very easy, the > data is unfakable and so on. > > Just think about this: > > "journalctl -b" shows you output of the current boot only > > "journalctl --since=today" shows you the output of today only > > "journalctl -p notice" shows you only notice and error messages > (i.e. all the important stuff) > > "journaclctl -u crond" shows you only the messages from cron. > > ... and so on. > > Now try to think how hard it is to express queries the same way on > classic syslog. And how slow they become on larger database because they > aren't indexed. > > journalctl makes a lot of things easier, much easier. If you say it is > complex or difficult to use I am pretty sure you never had a closer look > at it. > > (Also, I am not sure what you mean by "vague". Please note that the file > format is fully documented: > http://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/systemd/journal-files/ also, we > commited to an API for them and more) > > > Lets try to keep things simple. This is why we use Fedora. This is why I > > use Fedora. > > We are certainly making things simpler by introducing nice query tools > like journalctl and by reducing the number of packages we install by > default, and by removing redundancy. > Some may say that you are making things harder by introducing tools (thus new things to learn) that are not really needed on a day to day basis (which is, in fact, what Dan wrote). However, I don't think we are discussing here whether we keep systemd or not rather than syslog, are we? ;-) Regards, Marc Deop -- devel mailing list devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
