On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 7:09 AM, Dan Mashal <dan.mashal@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
Almost homeopathically so, I'm afraid. I'm missing where Fedora isn't a community distro. I see the Secret Red Hat Cabal canard a lot, and have yet to see any evidence of it. I myself am a great example. I am not now, nor have I ever been, a Red Hat employee. Still, over the last several year, I have managed to join the community, participate in discussions and decsions, fix bugs, get packages in, and even serve a term in FESCO. Then I was voted out, because other individuals more qualified and popular than myself got more votes from the community than I did. ERMAHGERD TEH SHADOWY REDHAT CONSPIRACY.
Seriously, relax. Yes, there is Red Hat influence on Fedora. You know why? It's because lots of Red Hat employees contribute, and Fedora evolved from Red Hat Linux. They bring great heaps of valuable contributions of code, time, resources and expertise, both as part of Red Hat and as individual members of the community. Their influence is overt and positive, not covert and malignant. You may not agree with every choice they make, but that's life.
I get that you're angry that a DE you don't like is the default and your DE of choice isn't. But tossing out unfounded accusations and personal attacks on the -devel list isn't going to win you hearts and minds. Making the spin that uses your chosen DE the most popular and bug-free probably would, over time. People tend to use what works well for them, which is why most of us are here, working on and using Fedora. It's why Fedora supports heaps of DEs in the first place. We've seen it with GNOME, KDE, XFCE (Open|Libre)Office, X11R6/Xorg, systemd, NetworkManager, distributed SCM, and the list goes on. If things really bring great value to users, they will absolutely catch fire, working their way into prominent places organically. Some things never dominate their niche, but still fill a definite need. If a default setting is important enough to enough people, they will vote for (or become) the candidates for the bodies that vote to change it. It can take time, lobbying, etc. If that isn't working for you personally, you can always fork, and build your own distro with whatever defaults you like, and even be free from Red Hat influence*. But I think we're all better off if we, as a community, can remain civil, work together, and continue to benefit from each other's work. There's room for everyone's contributions, but we have to play nicely together.
Kum ba ya my lord, kum ba yaaa. . . . .
-J
On Tue, Jan 29, 2013 at 5:07 AM, Mathieu Bridon
<bochecha@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On 01/29/2013 08:25 PM, Dan Mashal wrote:
>>
>> I'm sure QA, releng, docs, etc will go with what the community decides.
>
>
> Why would they?
>
> They are community too, they don't have to "follow" on what other decide,
> they are free to go on working on the QA and docs of GNOME if they prefer,
> just like you were free to package MATE instead of GNOME.
>
>
> --
> Mathieu
>
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Well, I guess it just goes back to the subtle point I was making
earlier of exactly how much of a "community" based distro Fedora
REALLY is. I guess it's a little less subtle now.
Almost homeopathically so, I'm afraid. I'm missing where Fedora isn't a community distro. I see the Secret Red Hat Cabal canard a lot, and have yet to see any evidence of it. I myself am a great example. I am not now, nor have I ever been, a Red Hat employee. Still, over the last several year, I have managed to join the community, participate in discussions and decsions, fix bugs, get packages in, and even serve a term in FESCO. Then I was voted out, because other individuals more qualified and popular than myself got more votes from the community than I did. ERMAHGERD TEH SHADOWY REDHAT CONSPIRACY.
Seriously, relax. Yes, there is Red Hat influence on Fedora. You know why? It's because lots of Red Hat employees contribute, and Fedora evolved from Red Hat Linux. They bring great heaps of valuable contributions of code, time, resources and expertise, both as part of Red Hat and as individual members of the community. Their influence is overt and positive, not covert and malignant. You may not agree with every choice they make, but that's life.
I get that you're angry that a DE you don't like is the default and your DE of choice isn't. But tossing out unfounded accusations and personal attacks on the -devel list isn't going to win you hearts and minds. Making the spin that uses your chosen DE the most popular and bug-free probably would, over time. People tend to use what works well for them, which is why most of us are here, working on and using Fedora. It's why Fedora supports heaps of DEs in the first place. We've seen it with GNOME, KDE, XFCE (Open|Libre)Office, X11R6/Xorg, systemd, NetworkManager, distributed SCM, and the list goes on. If things really bring great value to users, they will absolutely catch fire, working their way into prominent places organically. Some things never dominate their niche, but still fill a definite need. If a default setting is important enough to enough people, they will vote for (or become) the candidates for the bodies that vote to change it. It can take time, lobbying, etc. If that isn't working for you personally, you can always fork, and build your own distro with whatever defaults you like, and even be free from Red Hat influence*. But I think we're all better off if we, as a community, can remain civil, work together, and continue to benefit from each other's work. There's room for everyone's contributions, but we have to play nicely together.
Kum ba ya my lord, kum ba yaaa. . . . .
-J
Dan
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in your fear, seek only peace
in your fear, seek only love
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