----- Original Message ----- > > Le Lun 5 novembre 2012 10:45, Dodji Seketeli a écrit : > > > Just having a dedicated Rawhide Swat Team of die hard volunteers > > who > > could spot issues early, file more bugs, gently push for fixes in > > Rawhide and last but not least build a kind of "esprit de corps" > > among > > those who suffer Rawhide breakages for the greater good would be a > > great > > start, IMHO. > > There is already a pool of rawhide users. > Rawhide bugs are already reported. > > The problem is not here, the problem is maintainers that deliberately > ignore bugs with rawhide in them (usual excuse and motto are "Rawhide > eats > babies", "I'll test when Rawhide is more stable", no empathy for > other > maintainers that can not test because your problem is breaking their > test > process). They hope the problems will go away before branch time, and > then > cry they get too little time to fix stuff after branching when the > very > same problems hit alpha testers, or badger the reporters to file a > new > report at branch time without even checking the information that was > provided before and assuming it is necessarily stale. > > All the systemd problems were reported in Rawhide way before they hit > branched. If they did hit branched it's not because reporting was > lacking, > but because there was a lack of social pressure not to let Rawhide > rot > (with easily predictable consequences). > > When systemd inclusion was deferred in stable because it was not > ready and > no service had been migrated there was *no* effort I could see to fix > the > problem in Rawhide and systemd hit the next branch time with all the > problems that justified initial deferring intact. This is a problem - when developers do not work first in Rawhide and do not push back to branched (or push into branched from Rawhide if it's on time). We talked about it in the last Board meeting, one idea was to block in Bodhi any updates where Rawhide version < update version. > Someone wrote in this thread that Gnome updates were painful in > branched. > Well they are horrific in Rawhide. If there was some effort to make > them > only painful in Rawhide they would not be horrific in branched. (this > is > called a 'virtuous circle'). > > IMHO it was a huge mistake to synchronise Fedora releases with GNOME > releases instead of synchronising Fedora branch times with GNOME > release > times. That's idiotic and means there is no time Fedora-side to do > any QA > and fixing before pushing a new GNOME release to users. I think there's some sync between GNOME and Fedora releases - I already proposed F19 schedule - 3.7.90 is a week before branching, and before Alpha, 3.8.0 release precedes Features 100% complete and thus it goes to Beta. Or are you talking about having final even before branching? The current process allows us to influence (in some extend) development of GNOME based on Alpha release etc. And yeah, it's probably not enough. > (two high-visibility examples anyone can understand, not necessarily > the > worst offenders and systemd people at least seem to have improved > their > workflow a little over time) > > Adding time to the end of the circle is compounding the problem, not > fixing it. Another thing would be use more the GIT workflow while building stuff for Rawhide. For example - it takes quite a lot of time to build the whole KDE stack for Rawhide and of course, this leads to breakage - and if upstream decides to push back release when we're in the middle (it happened) we were screwed. So use own build target, merge/push to Rawhide once it's done. Question is how demanding would this behaviour be for infrastructure (if used more often by more teams, or even required by a policy). R. > -- > Nicolas Mailhot > > -- > devel mailing list > devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel -- devel mailing list devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
