tir, 07.09.2004 kl. 21.19 skrev Sean Middleditch: > On Tue, 2004-09-07 at 20:06 +0200, Kyrre Ness Sjobak wrote: > > > Yes, that is one way to solve it. > > > > What i was more thinking about, was really "integrating" (sorry if i use > > the wrong wording) yum into rpm. Yum has an API, yes? > > Again, why? You don't get anything for this. Just use yum all the time > and never invoke rpm. This is similar to how most users in Debian > systems use apt-get all the time, but almost never directly invoke dpkg. > And dpkg has no apt integration at all. > > The tools you use should be built on yum. What you're asking for is to > allow tools to be built on rpm but have yum's features. That's a bad > way to design the system, for many reasons, not the least of which is > because the package manager should be able to just do its job; adding > more meta-packager features to RPM is just going to increase the chance > of bugs (and bugs which can and will affect the core of the package > manager) > > > > > Only that will create a circular dependence rpm/yum - make it a compile > > option? > > > > But something that WILL be needed if this actually gets implemented, is > > some "--noyumdepsolve" and "--silent-answer-yes" flags - rpm is very > > useful also in scripts. (is there some way to detect if a program is > > getting called by a script (non-interactive) or by an actual person on a > > terminal? If so, --silent-answer-yes should be default imo. That option > > You can check if stdin is a (pseudo-)terminal or a pipe; the former > indicates a user, the latter a script. Any time the user is directly > interacting with the app, they should be using a PTY/TTY. Scripts may > still use a PTY however; it's good to always be able to explicitly tell > the tool that you're a script. > > > could be _very_ useful when talking about rpm that require a license to > > be read etc. (ever tried installing the Macromedia Flash rpm's through a > > script? /me likes Dag Wieers, who makes good non-interactive > > flash-rpms...) > > The problem there is that, put bluntly, RPM sucks for applications. It > is a low-level packaging tool intended for bundling the components of a > distribution. It never was intended for third-party applications, and > to this day still has huge problems supporting them, as the situation > with Macromedia demonstrates. > > For license agreements, RPM would need meta-information to carry the > full license text and allow a package to note that agreement is > required; this would be done before any of the package installations > even start. Currently, you'd have to put this in a script (and pray you > made it portable enough *and* not use any binaries in your package, > since it isn't unpacked yet, and make it pretty, and make it > consistent... it's just not feasible) which would a) be executed > sometime during installation, and b) have to report an error to rpm if > the user declines, which would most likely cause all sorts of > "Installation Failed!!! Here's some geeky nonsensical techie debug spew > you, the user, don't understand or care about, because you are aware of > the fact that you said 'No': <rpm error report>" dialogs or console > messages to appear. > > There are still then problems stemming from the fact that every version > of every distribution is incompatible due to either developers not > versioning their ABIs right, or packagers taking perfectly well > versioned libraries and tools and putting them into poorly versioned and > inconsistent packages (like the broken curl RPM in Fedora), but that's a > whole different topic. ~_^ > > > > > Ofcourse it is possible to tell people to use yum instead of rpm - but > > how nice is that? "Hey all you people, forget about rpm - always use yum > > instead!!" - or not? "rpm -ivh two-lettersTAB" is something that is > > built into my fingers... But a new tool could work (something like > > "rpm-depsolve -ivh my-package.fc2.rpm" > > If you're alright with requesting a tool like 'rpm-depsolve', I don't > see at all how you can argue against just using yum. ;-) > Hmm... somhow using yum to install a local package feels wrong... Hmm... think ill acctually have to write some prototype stuff, then. rpm-depsolve, here i come! :P Always wanted to create some "core" utility... > > > > Only problem now is actually finding a good programmer, and a good way > > to do this. > > > > > -- > Sean Middleditch <elanthis@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > AwesomePlay Productions, Inc. >
