On 07/10/2011 09:27 PM, Matthew Garrett wrote: > On Sun, Jul 10, 2011 at 08:59:05PM -0400, Steve Dickson wrote: >> On 07/10/2011 04:32 PM, Steve Clark wrote: >>> What are the benefits of systemd - other than it is the new fantastic, wonderful latest gizmo! >> Lennart, could you please answer this question? Because if you can't we should >> drop systemd from Fedora... IMHO.. > > You have *got* to be joking. > > Systemd has been through a far more elaborate process of acceptance than > pretty much any other feature in Fedora history. Fesco spent an extended > period of time discussing it. We even took the unusual decision of > requesting that it be reverted from being the default in F14 in order to > reduce the chances of it causing problems for users. So did that "elaborate process of acceptance" include the Fedora community or maybe the Linux community or possibly the Business community. The point being did the acceptance process include people who one, will be using systemd and two people who will be supported their packages using systemd? > > Every time the appropriate governance bodies have asked Lennart for > further information on systemd, he's provided useful feedback. He's > helped anyone who's asked for advice on converting their init scripts. > He's explained the advantages of systemd on multiple occasions. And, > because of this, I don't think anyone who was empowered to make this > decision in the first place has any qualms about it now. I personally find this funny... When I decided to change the default version of NFS from 3 to 4 I didn't just have to answer to the "appropriate governance bodies". I had to answer to the Fedora community, the Linux community plus every mama and papa place that uses Fedora for their company. The point being... Change is hard, as long as its for the be better.. If not.. its simply wrong... > > It's not reasonable to demand that people spend time reiterating things > that they've said before, and inist that their code be reverted if > they're unwilling to give in to unreasonable requests. That's not how > the project works. It's not how any project works. Yes it is... If want to change the world be prepared to justify it every step of way.. That is exactly how projects work! > > The discussion you've been having regarding the disconnect between your > idea of how init scripts should work and Lennart's opinions about how > systemd services should work is interesting and worthwhile. I'd expect > that, given time, it'll result in a reasonable outcome. But can we try > to keep it at that useful level rather than insisting that things be > reverted? > I truly truly truly hope so... but at the end of the day... I simply can't allow a new, untested (in a business environment) package destabilize a technology that is used by a large number of our community... steved. -- devel mailing list devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
