On 5/10/11 12:23 PM, Jonathan Corbet wrote: > I'm not talking about this week. The X11 problem was reported three weeks > ago, and the "don't run Rawhide" advice given to me came rather before > that. Rawhide has been an unusually painful place to be for some time > now, and a lot of people, I believe, have opted out of it. Yum has pattern excludes, man. You have the tools. > I'm getting close to doing the same, despite having run Rawhide on my > desktop for a *long* time. > > Your response really just reinforces my concern. What value does the > distribution get from a "dumping ground"? Sigh. Catching this instance of the problem is not entirely trivial. I have a plan, and I'll even take patches for it, but it's simply not a priority. Releases matter more. I suspect they matter more for a lot of people, in fact. Which is an entire set of problems that simply did not exist before no-frozen-rawhide was a thing. Before that, the problem we had was five hundred builds all hitting rawhide at once and literally nothing working for weeks _after_ the release was out. Here, instead, we've slipped that broken stage to be parallel with tuning the release. That seems like a win to me; once F15 is out, some F16hide problems have a chance of having been fixed, and the rest will get done sooner (in the sense of "by an earlier date", not "at a faster rate"), which gives more useful time before F16 to do actual work. --- What _I'm_ dismayed about is that literally zero people cared about this problem enough to have the courage to look at fixing it. Not so much that it leaves rawhide unusable, more that we've basically lost any notion of collective ownership, and/or that nobody is fearless enough to go read things they don't already know. I had to write a patch for frickin' LLVM for F15, of all things, code I'd never read before in a language I don't really know in a domain where I have zero expertise. That was just the problem that was in my way. X being broken in rawhide was in who knows how many peoples' ways, and even though it's provenpackager+ and even though all it would have taken was a mass driver rebuild, nobody even tried. Where _are_ you people? Why do I bother to open the ACLs on my packages if nobody's going to take advantage of it? --- But to your question of "what value do we get from rawhide existing", well, builds have to go somewhere. We may as well keep the compose tools running on them all the time, so when things do break we see them. All we had here was a case where one tool didn't catch a breakage because the other bit of the tools weren't complete enough yet. I don't think that's sufficient cause to question rawhide's existence. I suspect, instead, that most other consumability problems with rawhide are basically the same pattern: nobody tries to fix anything outside their scope. If one is not concerned with the whole being greater than the sum of its parts, why exactly would one work on a distribution? - ajax -- devel mailing list devel@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
