On Monday, August 23, 2010 04:05:11 pm Lennart Poettering wrote: > On Mon, 23.08.10 15:52, Mike McGrath (mmcgrath@xxxxxxxxxx) wrote: > > On Mon, 23 Aug 2010, Bill Nottingham wrote: > > > Matthew Miller (mattdm@xxxxxxxxxx) said: > > > > So, I'm honestly asking: what are the odds that these few things are > > > > the only improvements that cause a disruptive change to user > > > > interaction? I don't think it's unreasonable to wonder if there are > > > > other changes which fit this category. > > > > > > My concern with this line of thinking is that you're asking us to > > > quantify the unknown unknown, and define a time period of testing > > > which is 'long enough' for us to catch all the unknown unknowns. This > > > seems impractical, in as much as it doesn't give us any clear criteria > > > to define success with. > > > > It's just risk management. I think we'd be better off acknowledging > > there are unknown unknowns and try to mitigate them. One way we could > > have done that this time around was making it an optional feature (as > > Matt was mentioning in a previous email) for F14 and then decide in F15 > > if it was ready. Unfortunately that's not the path we seem to be on. > > We unwisely seemed to declare it ready before anyone even saw it then we > > ignored what we didn't know as if we knew there were going to be no > > problems. The sad thing is that's such an easy fix by making brand new > > features for core components like this opt in, even if it's just for a > > single release. > > I am sorry, but your are discussing all this from the perspective as if > something went really horribly wrong with how things worked out. But > frankly, I don't even see what even remotely went wrong. So far, I am > myself surprised how smooth this all went. I was prepared for much > worse, I have expected much worse. > > I know I am repeating myself: everything's wonderful. Umm we discussed for many hours on friday the issue im having that is resulting im my desktop being unable to boot since now the network service will not start which also causes dbus to not start and my sysetm to never fully come up. With no outcome other than to stick with upstart for now its not all wonderful and peachy. it has been the case forever that if your using ldap for auth you need to have network start before dbus that has always been the answer but you broke that from happening. Dennis
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