On Fri, 2009-05-01 at 00:48 +0100, Matthew Garrett wrote: > It's not about smart versus dumb. If we trust these people then we > have > to assume that in most cases they *will* know better than people who > argue against them on mailing lists. And if we don't trust them then > there's something pretty fundamentally wrong with the way we're > producing this distribution. I think the problem in this case is that they're considering the purity of their system over the quality of the product of which it forms a part. The significant objection on the part of the desktop team is that it's bad UI to have two volume controls as part of the desktop. i.e., they have a policy that it's good UI to have one application per function, this breaks that, therefore it's bad UI, therefore it's bad. There's a perfectly good logic to their thought process. The problem is it doesn't go far enough. It stops at "bad UI == bad", but that isn't always true. I think everyone advocating this change agrees that it's bad UI. It's never been presented as anything but a stopgap measure. But the issue is that, in this case, the bad UI produces a better *product*, in terms of an actual desktop operating system which we are releasing very shortly. The desktop team are thinking about their ongoing process of developing a desktop, and from that point of view, suddenly throwing in a legacy mixer application because they haven't quite finished twiddling the problems out of the new one yet is nuts. Unfortunately, we're not shipping an ongoing process of developing a desktop, we're shipping a *point release of a desktop operating system*, with all the expectations that are attached to that. Including the ability to perform really basic configuration of sound devices from a graphical interface. if you look at things from the context of the Fedora product, not from the perspective of the GNOME design process, providing only the new gnome-volume-control in Fedora 11 is a painfully obvious regression in functionality. This is clearly what our friends at Ubuntu think, given that quite late in their release cycle, they dropped the new gnome-volume-control in favour of gst-mixer *by default* (a much more invasive change than is being proposed here). They made this change on March 3rd, 2009, and have since shipped with it. I haven't seen any complaints about it. -- Adam Williamson Fedora QA Community Monkey IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org http://www.happyassassin.net -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@xxxxxxxxxx https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
