* Matthew Garrett <mjg@xxxxxxxxxx> [20090417 18:52]: > On Fri, Apr 17, 2009 at 08:43:28AM -0700, Christopher Stone wrote: > > 2009/4/16 Jesse Keating <jkeating@xxxxxxxxxx>: > > > On Fri, 2009-04-17 at 01:37 +0500, Suren Karapetyan wrote: > > >> You will not find anyone @RH who will agree that > > >> previews behavior was better > > >> > > > On the contrary, you'll likely find many people who work for Red Hat > > > that would prefer the old behavior, they're just not wasting their time > > > by arguing about it on a distribution mailing list. > > > > So what are they doing instead? Absolutely nothing? How ridiculous. > > Let's just make a bunch of extremely bad decisions and keep bad > > defaults because actually trying to convince someone that the defaults > > or decisions people make are bad is pointless. > > The people to convince are the maintainers of the code in question, and > in the general case sprawling threads on distribution mailing lists > aren't a good way to do that. Some worthwhile ideas came out of this > discussion and were implemented - however, at this point it's just > repeating the same arguments over and over again, and argument ad > nauseum is not the most convincing approach. While I am not a representative figure of the user population, I had a case today where: * Thunar made a "grab" and I could not click to change focus away. To all intents and purposes, I was in the situation that the contingency for preserving C-A-Bs as enabled by default is holding up as the primary reason. * Switching to vc/2 gave a blank screen * My sshd setup is to only allow pub-key auth coming in to my laptop and I did not have the right keys on another system yet set up (that's now rectified), so ssh in to kill Thunar didn't work I was doing some pretty intricate stuff for several customers in parallel, and shooting the session through C-A-Bs was out of the question *even though it was available as an option to me*. I ended up logging in on the console "black screen", because I knew there was a login there, and typing blind, I killed thunar off to recover my session and the hours worth of work I had sitting in my session. So - from my perspective, being one of those hate-object "@RH" people, while C-A-Bs was available, my choice was not to use it because the work was more valuable than the 3-4 minutes to assess the situation and to try a few ways to recover it. C-A-Bs is akin to Alt-SysRq-C if you have SysRq's enabled. The default setting should be "off" so that people by accident can't trigger it. If you need it - you get to enable it yourself. That is a sensible default for a debug function. In all else you wrote Matthew, I agree with you. (And while I have not yet filed a BZ against Thunar, that is forthcoming shortly.) -- /Anders -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@xxxxxxxxxx https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
