On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 7:49 PM, Olav Vitters <olav@xxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > On Sat, Dec 20, 2008 at 07:02:26PM +0100, Mark wrote: >> To the people reading the gnome usability list and see this for the >> first time.. look here for the full discussion (about 150 posts): >> http://fcp.surfsite.org/modules/newbb/viewtopic.php?topic_id=65669&viewmode=flat&order=ASC&start=0 > [..] >> Now on topic. >> Lets do a little rounding up (conclusions how i see them! correct me >> if i'm wrong on any of them) >> >> 1. Somewhere in 2003 or 2004 it is decided for whatever reason to make >> the spatial mode in nautilus and put it as the default mode. To my >> knowledge no research is done if people even wanted that. it just got >> pushed through there throat and they are expected to just take it in >> not spit it out. We are now (and a lot of users back then) spitting >> that decision out and clear that bad taste. Nearly all gnome based > > Please keep it constructive. Above comparison is not. You will likely > get heated responses because of it (see also below). > >> distributions do the same and the people using those distributions >> seems to be happy about the browser mode. > > You provide no basis for that statement. No basis.. do i need one? Look at Ubuntu and all other distros that provide gnome and see how much of them use the browser or spatial mode. > >> 2. I always was under the impression that gnome especially was a >> democracy but it turns out it's under dictatorship and then call it: >> "Meritocracy" with a dictator like taste. > > Please don't make such loaded comparisons if you want to continue to > post to a GNOME mailing list. See http://live.gnome.org/CodeOfConduct. > I've read most of the thread on the Fedora mailing list. I am not > interested in a repeat. It's just an observation and seems to be true till this moment. > >> 3. Fedora has a community but when the community starts demanding >> something (use the browser mode as default) then it turns out that the > > A few votes on a mailing list. This has been dismissed already. > >> 4. There is just ONE person here that decided to make it spatial and >> that one person can't be convinced (Alexander Larson). Just look at > > That is not true. Then give me a link where that disision is made otherwise i see it as true. > >> 5. I was about to open a bug report on gnome for this now but it turns >> out there is one already: >> http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=427628 > > Just general FYI: Discussion is not appreciated on (bgo) bugreports > (should be done elsewhere, e.g. in a mailing list), so please do not add > comments about things that have been said before. > The purpose of a bugreport is to discuss how the bug should be fixed > (which in above bugreport would just be a config change). I don't agree on that. i even saw ppl on the gnome bugzilla (developers!) telling the other users to post it to the mailing list(s) as well to raise awareness. And i think i did that. > >> 6. Convincing people.. yea possible but is FOUR (yes 4!) FREAKING >> YEARS not proof enough that there decision was wrong. If that doesn't >> convince them, again mainly or even only Alexander Larson, then they >> can simply not be convinced in this subject. > > Baseless statement. In your mind the decision is wrong. However, you > even haven't convinced everyone of that fact. This was already mentioned > on the Fedora mailing list. Not only in my mind. the majority agrees with me that browser mode should be the default. And to give that a base. read this full list and search on google. > >> 7. This is a conclusion again about the community. A few months ago >> Max Spevack came to my school to hold a presentation about linux, > > I'm not sure what this has to do with usability@xxxxxxxxxx Please be > concise. That is true. > >> A very good example of the bad community direction is, to name someone >> again, Rahul. He always points you to your mistakes (fine in a way) >> but never adds (not in my experience) something constructive or >> helpful.... always a link to a wiki of somekind. > > Take that off list (at least for anything @gnome.org). Also true but kinda hard when cross posting. > >> And for this entire issue where i made this thread for in the first >> place. Don't expect me to be silent now. I will be vocal about this. >> fedora has a "freedom" sign in it's logo so make that a reality! > > Suggest to be constructive. Just vocal won't be appreciated. I have been constructive. That didn't help much so time to put it in a higher gear. > > What helps: determine what usability thought was behind the spatial > mode. Then perform multiple real usability studies to show that for an > unbiased person spatial mode causes more problems than browser mode. > I think the most you could ask of me is what was done to get spatial in it to begin with. They didn't seem to conduct a study so i won't do that to revert there change. Also to conduct a study takes weeks or months and by that time this discussion is cooled down and put in the fridge. So your actually asking me to spend months conducting a study to just be silent here. And so if i did a study what then? I did do a small one on google for the "new" (in 2004) spatial feature. I didn't intent to post a bunch of links here but i will do so now. https://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/linux-software-2/gnome-2.6-spatial-file-manager-options-170027/ http://tweakers.net/nieuws/31799/gnome-introduceert-nieuwe-versie-26.html (dutch and a lot are against spatial) http://episteme.arstechnica.com/eve/ubb.x?a=tpc&s=50009562&f=174096756&m=811007643631&r=811007643631 http://osdir.com/ml/gnome.usability/2004-10/msg00026.html and more: http://www.google.nl/search?q=gnome+2.6+spatial&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a > -- > Regards, > Olav > -- fedora-devel-list mailing list fedora-devel-list@xxxxxxxxxx https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
