On Tue, 2014-02-04 at 07:55 -0700, Pete Travis wrote: > > On Feb 4, 2014 7:23 AM, "Alexander GS" <alxgrtnstrngl@xxxxxxxxx> > wrote: > > > > On Mon, 2014-02-03 at 18:31 +0100, drago01 wrote: > > > On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 6:22 PM, Alex GS <alxgrtnstrngl@xxxxxxxxx> > wrote: > > > > > > > > aruiz wrote: > > > > --- > > > > Agreed. Can you point to any single GNOME feature that is > tailored > > > > specifically for tablet devices? > > > > --- > > > > > > > > Gnome Shell is a feature/product/package focused on mobile > interaction for > > > > hybrids and touch enabled devices including tablets. > > > > > > Argument by repetition does not work. You stated that before and > got a > > > response that this is not the case and that you should come up > with > > > reasons where you got that from. You simply repeated your > statement. > > > This is pointless. > > > > aruiz wrote: > > > > Agreed. Can you point to any single GNOME feature that is > tailored > > > > specifically for tablet devices? > > > > I wanted to address this question because I think it's crucial to > > understand why GNOME 2 is the only suitable default choice for > Fedora > > Workstation. > > > > Let's revisit the original GNOME 3 (GNOME Shell) design document: > > > > Problem Definition: > > > > "The GNOME Project released version 2.0 of the GNOME Desktop in June > > 2002. It was an important milestone. In the years since then, the > > developer community has continually and incrementally improved the > > experience while learning a great deal about what worked and what > > didn't. The entire personal computing ecosystem has been changing > too - > > partly due to a number of new and disruptive technologies. While we > > won't dwell on the particulars of those changes it is important to > note > > that there is a growing consensus in the GNOME developer community > that > > we needed to make a leap forward in order to fix many of the flaws > in > > our designs and to generally bring a lot more awesome into the user > > experience." > > > > > https://people.gnome.org/~mccann/shell/design/GNOME_Shell-20091114.pdf > > > > The key phrases in the entire document: > > > > "The entire personal computing ecosystem has been changing too - > partly > > due to a number of new and disruptive technologies." > > > > - and - > > > > "we needed to make a leap forward in order to fix many of the flaws > in > > our designs." > > > > Mac OS X release back in 2001. > > > > GNOME 2 released in 2002. > > > > Apple released the iPhone back in 2007. > > > > This document was created back in 2009. > > > > The "new and disruptive technologies" were mobile devices such as > the > > iPhone. GNOME Shell itself was created as a reaction to the iPhone > and > > mobile form-factors. Clearly the design has that in mind with the > focus > > on touch-screen interaction. > > > > The "flaws in our designs" refers to the traditional desktop > workstation > > designs found in GNOME 2 that they no longer felt could address the > new > > mobile form-factors that were just launched. > > > > Apple released the iPad back in 2010. > > > > GNOME 3 was released in 2011. > > > > Let's look at that in perspective. Mac OS X (10.xx) was released in > 2001 > > and has been in a continually state of development and refinement > for > > over 13 years. If GNOME was Apple then GNOME 2 would still be in > active > > development up to at least 2015. The current version of GNOME 2 > would > > probably be 2.11 or 2.12. > > > > This is why GNOME 2 is the only suitable desktop for Fedora > Workstation. > > It's obvious that GNOME 3 (GNOME Shell) wasn't just created for > > traditional workstations but was an early attempt at a convergence > > concept to meld mobile and desktop interfaces together. This > convergence > > concept is still highly experimental and not yet mature. See > Ubuntu's > > Unity and Microsoft's Windows 8. > > > > GNOME 2 is a fully mature and realized traditional desktop > workstation > > concept, battle tested and with wide general appeal to fit the > > requirements of the Workstation PRD: > > > > "We want to create a stable, integrated, polished and user friendly > > system that can appeal to a wide general audience." > > > > "Case 3: Small Company Developer" > > > > "Case 4: Developer in a Large Organization" > > > > "Or the work we are doing to provide a high performance graphics > > workstation would be useful to people who want a linux gaming PC." > > > > "Work towards standardizing and unifying the Linux desktop space" > > > > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Workstation/Workstation_PRD > > > > If for some reason it's too controversial to make MATE the default > then > > you should give the user choice at the installation phase of GNOME > > Shell, MATE or KDE as per the following requirement in the > Workstation > > PRD. > > > > "we want to allow developers to use the tools they prefer for their > > application development yet make them all feel like a natural fit > into > > our integrated desktop experience." > > > > Key phrase: "we want to allow developers to use the tools they > prefer > > for their application development" > > > > Desktop environments are crucial to developer work-flows and and > > allowing the developer to pick from a limited list of supported > options > > at install as stated above (GNOME Shell, MATE, KDE) is the best way > to > > optimize that. > > > > > > Hi, question from a community member just trying to follow along. > > Can you provide a citation ( mailing list archive, maybe ) of the > discussion within the MATE project that led to MATE's decision to > request inclusion in the GNOME Foundation? > > --Pete > There was no such decision or discussion. We were discussing the default desktop for the Fedora Workstation project. It was my own individual proposal that MATE is the default desktop. I was discussing details on how that could be achieved and one idea was to merge MATE into GNOME. This does not represent the view of either MATE, GNOME or Fedora, these are my personal views. -- desktop mailing list desktop@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop
