elad wrote: --- "Also, I think we need a modern desktop that supports hi-dpi screens, touch interface (both are going to be fairly common in laptops very soon), with modern components (systemd's logind session management, wayland instead of Xorg). Can Mate do hi-dpi? Or wayland? Does it support multi-seat configurations out of the box? Does it have a proper support for touch-based devices? An on-screen-keyboard? Integrated cloud services? Integrated web apps? The answer to all these questions is absolutely no." --- Touchscreen's on a developer workstation? That sounds more like a tablet or media consumption all-in-one device. Also the Wayland is still in alpha on Gnome 3 Shell and nowhere near ready. You're talking about future events that haven't happened or things that aren't relevant to desktop workstations. Recommend that you watch: "Why MATE?" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-2WSt5cbR4 awilliam wrote: --- You're playing word games, whereas it's pretty clear from the entire thrust of the Workstation effort on all levels that the definition of "workstation" you cite is not the one anyone involved (the WG, FESCo etc) is using. --- Then the Workstation PRD is a misleading document. It describes the wrong target markets and ones that are incompatible with the Fedora Workstation according to whatever definition you happen to hold. In fact by that same token the Fedora Workstation PRD should be renamed CentOS Workstation and handed off to the CentOS community. Also, awilliam please make sure to delete the following from the Fedora Workstation PRD: Case 2: Independent Developer Case 3: Small Company Developer Case 4: Developer in a Large Organization If you never actually intend on hitting these targets it's a waste of time. Just as much as it waste of time to attempt to sell Windows 8 Metro on laptop-tablet-hybrids to a bunch of traditional Windows workstation users who are dead set on using Windows 7 for the next 5-10 years which happens to be that entire market much to Microsoft's grief. mcatanzaro wrote: --- Anyway, a modest proposal: I suggest installing GNOME Classic by default. GNOME Classic is a set of GNOME Shell extensions that are officially supported by GNOME. I don't suggest using it as the default session like RHEL is doing, but as an alternative that users could choose in gdm without having to install it themselves. --- Gnome Classic is a band-aid, a temporary solution. If the demand exists for the classic Gnome 2 experience why not give the user the real thing, just upgraded slightly? The main problem is that Mate is transitioning to GTK3 and once that's done things will integrate properly with the rest of the Gnome applications. Also, you haven't tried Mate with a proper compositor. I suggest trying Compton. It makes things smooth, tear free and is a really crisp experience. Arch Linux has a great guide that's been referenced in one of my previous emails. If you would like I can share my Compton configuration files and start-up script. Once you try Mate with Compton you won't go back to anything else. lynn dixon wrote: --- I am one of the more traditional users whom prefer a normal task bar for managing my time between many different applications at once. Cinnamon is quite mature now and has been pretty stable for me. Its honestly the only reason my coworkers and I have any Gnome software on our machines. --- liam.bulkley wrote: --- The intended audience for G3 is exactly the opposite of the user that Fedora Workstation is targeting. --- Exactly, there's a huge pent-up demand for the traditional Gnome 2 experience just upgraded slightly. Oddly enough if you were to buy a Mac you could get the full Gnome 2 experience but if you use Gnome Shell or Unity you cannot. Even if you look at Chrome OS from Google it doesn't stray that far from the traditional desktop metaphor. Chrome OS is much closer to Gnome 2 than it is to Gnome 3 Shell. Google knows if it did something too radical the product wouldn't sell. That's the whole point of my post. Make it easy for users from other Linux distributions or from Mac or Windows to transition easily to something they're familiar with and meets their expectations of what a desktop workstation should be like. Be ambitious, expand the Fedora user-base far beyond your own expectations, become a leader in the Mac/Unix/Linux workstation market. -- desktop mailing list desktop@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop
