On Fri, 01 Oct 2010 13:03:51 -0700, you wrote: >On Fri, 2010-10-01 at 15:50 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote: >> On Fri, 2010-10-01 at 14:52 -0400, Colin Walters wrote: >> > This is definitely scope creeping the discussion here, but I'm coming >> > round to the viewpoint that Fedora shoudn't ship any application in >> > the default install whose primary purpose is to connect to proprietary >> > web services, or at least not ones configured by default to do so. >> > (All apps are of course free to be in the repositories). >> > >> > This would dovetail nicely with making it not suck to install applications. >> >> I don't think this is a useful direction to take the F14/pino problem >> into. If we stop installing applications that are useful for users, then >> the users will go somewhere else. > >This is the same argument you can make with proprietary hardware >drivers. Ultimately we've always agreed with the FSF position that >encouraging the use of proprietary software just makes it less likely >that free software will be written, so we shouldn't do it. > >The situation here is exactly analogous. If we choose to, say, ship a >client configured to connect to identi.ca by default instead, we're >putting our weight behind freedom in a very important area, just as >important as hardware support. Pino does not connect to anything be default, you need an account in order to connect to either twitter or identi.ca with a dedicated client like pino. The bigger question this brings up is where does Fedora draw the line. Binary drivers are an easy case, they are bad in several ways for Fedora. Bugs can't be fixed, they make figuring out what component is at fault difficult, and most importantly if allowed to expand can lead to a situation where a free, open source operating system is impossible. When you start talking about restricting software based on what it connects to you are going into a very grey area. If we ban Pino because it connects to proprietary twitter, then do we also ban all the email clients? They can be used to connect to proprietary mail servers. How about Samba? Its purpose is to network with Windows. How about Network Manager? Its used to connect to network devices that are usually running proprietary software. What about web browsers? Likely 90% of what users connect to are based at least partially on proprietary software. It would be somewhat ironic if Fedora, having just taken steps to improve the user experience by creating rules regarding disruptive updates, makes all the effort irrelevant by removing the software that makes Fedora usuable by those users. -- desktop mailing list desktop@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop
