Re: Pup suggestion (IRC log)

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<skvidal> moZer: I saw that, intriguing idea
<nasrat> moZer: yeah I saw
<jeremy> moZer: although I have to wonder why they don't just give you a
repo file instead and then you select what you want to install (and only
have to download it)
<moZer> well, that would also be possible, but it doesn't cover the case
of offline distribution
<skvidal> moZer: but offline distribution can just be done with a cd,
right?
<jeremy> moZer: sure it does... offline distribution is just a cd
<moZer> yes, but if the .yar doesn't contain the rpms?
<moZer> i mean you can't just put the .repo on a CD
<skvidal> then you've just distributed a .repo file, right?
<moZer> yes, but you can't install anything without going online
<jeremy> moZer: sure you can... we're going to have to have a way to
refer to cds anyway
<moZer> ok s/offline distribution/offline installation/g
<jeremy> moZer: so your repo on a cd basically says "look at cd drives"
<moZer> well...
<skvidal> or probably more to the point: look for a cd drive with this
identifier
<jeremy> skvidal: *nod*
<Magic8Ball> jeremy: "look at cd if network not there"
<skvidal> Magic8Ball: no
<Magic8Ball> skvidal: poo
<skvidal> Magic8Ball: I don't see a good reason to make it look where
you're not telling it to look
<skvidal> and code like 'if network not there' has that been written?
<moZer> then you'd have a repo file which says  "look at cd drives", and
a bunch of rpms on the cd
<moZer> == a .yar
<Magic8Ball> skvidal: i have no idea... im just saying people with needs
for install media might have time-dependant needs
<skvidal> moZer: then why have the other format?
<moZer> it's for downloading as a single file
<Magic8Ball> skvidal: depending on availability of the network... and
god only knows what a distributor like adobe in moZer example thinks is
'sane'
<moZer> that was the idea at least
<Magic8Ball> moZer: here's the problem with bundling the rpms with
the .repo file
<Magic8Ball> moZer: repo overlap
<Magic8Ball> moZer: you have absolutely no garuntee that updates will
come from the expected repo..
<Magic8Ball> moZer: a .repo file with instructions on which package or
group to pull... would allow for the logic of whatever repo collection
is configured to resolve itself
<moZer> well, that's true
<Magic8Ball> moZer: there's no garuntee the rpm payload in a larger
archive would actually be used.. if other repos are already configured
that have that software
<moZer> the target distributor is the ones that don't usually distribute
their software in a public repository though
<Magic8Ball> moZer: shrug
<moZer> and the .repo is optional anyway
<Magic8Ball> moZer: i think the .repo is the more important part
<Magic8Ball> moZer: i think the rpm payload is optional... for an online
download
<Magic8Ball> moZer: on a cd... the payload just sits there to be used or
not...
<Magic8Ball> moZer: for online... who cares when the rpms get downloaded
<Magic8Ball> moZer: the .repo and a set of instructions that pup/yum can
use to start the install/dep resolution/download process is what matters
<Magic8Ball> moZer: as soon as you open the door to outside repos of any
nature.. you are opening the door to overlap
<moZer> well, the idea isn't to distribute things like gaim like that,
which can be found in a number of repositories
<moZer> it's mostly for commercial applications
<jeremy> moZer: instead of using some archive format, though, why not
basically have it be "distribute as an iso"?
<nasrat> dmg
<moZer> what happens when you try to open an iso in nautilus? 
<moZer> the format isn't important, the file type assiciation is
<moZer> and the fact that it is a single file
<Magic8Ball> jeremy: loopback mounting as a normal user is fun
<jeremy> Magic8Ball: an iso fs is as easy to grok as a tarball
<Magic8Ball> jeremy: hey if you want to teach nautilus to grok it..
great
<moZer> still, this idea isn't exactly core business for FC
<nasrat> Magic8Ball: archive manager just works
<moZer> more like RHEL Home Edition
<moZer> :-)
<Magic8Ball> nasrat: archive manager doesnt fire off pup does it?
<skvidal> moZer: things we work on in FC have a way of finding their way
to rhel
<Magic8Ball> nasrat: the point is... if you ship it as iso.. something
else other than archive manager is gonna have to KNOW to interact with
it to start the repo process
<Magic8Ball> nasrat: for this specific purpose... archive manager is not
what you want opening up
<jeremy> Magic8Ball: and if you ship a tarball, then it's just going to
open in archive manager and not pup
<nasrat> archive manager -> dbus I've found a new repo
<Magic8Ball> jeremy: he didnt say ship a tar :->
<Magic8Ball> nasrat: thats great
<jeremy> Magic8Ball: same difference for zip file
<nasrat> bah ascii cpio all the way
<jeremy> nasrat: I wasn't going to say it ;)
<Magic8Ball> jeremy: i thought he was suggesting a new file extention
<Magic8Ball> jeremy: as a hook
<nasrat> we could use xar
<jeremy> Magic8Ball: file extensions don't really mean much
<Magic8Ball> jeremy: what.. there are no mimetype definitions that are
solely file extention based?
<jeremy> Magic8Ball: istr all the mime stuff is based more on magic than
extensions.  hell, "extensions" don't really exist except as vague
convention
<Magic8Ball> nasrat: if you can make the dbus magic like that work... im
all for it
<nasrat> Magic8Ball: let me get the first bits finished
<Magic8Ball> jeremy: more on.. but im pretty sure there are some that
are extention related
<Magic8Ball> nasrat: i didnt set a deadline for you :->
<Magic8Ball> nasrat: how about.. before you die...does that work for
you?
<nasrat> Magic8Ball: will work for donuts
<nasrat> or beer
<Magic8Ball> nasrat: black doughnuts?
<nasrat> with black milk
<jeremy> Magic8Ball: mime types are decided based on the mime magic
(which is roughly file magic)
<moZer> i'll dump this log onto the list, for reference


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